Cons of Interchiller - In humid environments

[Boosted]

Any update on the IC install Bill? Sittin on pins!

Working on it and making sure it plays nice with all of the BrawlerFab products.

 

[FULLTHROTTLERICK]

Working on it and making sure it plays nice with all of the BrawlerFab products.

Excellente!

 

[GenF-GTS]

I love the idea of the interchiller, but not clear on the cons of running one in very humid environments. To this point i was told turn off the AC rev a few times to clear out the condensation. However, if i were face with condensation issues 24/7 and always have to turn the AC off and rev a few times it most likely won't be for me.

What i am looking for is a system that is plug and play and was hoping that both could provide the ability to run normal and then increase the cooling when driving hard.

Condensation occurs on all hellcat based engines regardless of which chiller is being used.
The issue is 100% able to be fixed in the tune, however some tuners have been unable to replicate the results of other tuners who have fixed the issue. I am not sure why they haven't been able to tune/fix the issue as it is a simple case of adding more fuel to the hot start table which then dilutes the condensation with more fuel. This has been replicated and fixed by 2-3 home tuners, OST Dyno, ZH Tunes, Baily Hyperformance, RSPDMV, Overkill Performance, Full Blown Performance to name a few that have fixed the hot start issue. Yes 100% fixable in the tune.

Additionally, the condensation issue can be resolved in a number of different ways outside of tuning:
1. Place the intercooler pump on a switch, simply turn the pump off a few min before you get home and when you see the fluid temp getting closer to the outside air temp you will be fine.

2. Edge into boost 0-2psi is all that is needed, this will blow out any condensation, this can be done in the driveway or on the final few streets back home. This can also be combined with #1 turning off the intercooler pump.

3. If you decide to retain the HX (we provide instructions on how to do this) you can switch to HX mode, put the chiller in cabin and chiller mode so you are not getting as cold anymore, edge into boost blow out the condensation and since the HX will heat your fluid up either not much or no condensation will form.

4. Turn off the AC, edge into boost, blow the condensation out.

5. In cabin and chiller mode condensation is much less of an issue as you are not getting it as cold, you can then also manipulate it as per the above suggestions to make it remove the condensation.

6. Tune it out and don't worry about it ever again

Personally, the intercooler pump on a switch is very easy, so is giving it a little short lean on with the AC turned off 1-2 streets before home. When I say lean on it, I mean just that just go into boost a touch, most of the time this won't even break the speed limit.

Does anyone know who manufactures the demon chiller? Are there corrosion concerns with the current aftermarket chillers? I ask because someone recently posted about it.

We have heard from 1 workshop that the demon chiller core split open on them at the track, I have not had a good look at the OEM core, but knowing how our cores are made the OEM core won't be made the same.
Our cores are extremely strong, pressure tested to 1000psi on both circuits independently of one another.

Does FI come with a tank or is that optional?

We now offer a tank, here is the install video for you:

What happened to that thread with the Australian fella about chillers?? It was full of useful information until it went off the rails and turned into a pissing match lol.

Wow, I missed that part of it for sure. Too bad the mods couldn't "extract " the first page or two of that thread and post it up. The guy seemed like he really knew his stuff and had a great product/kit that works on our trucks. Maybe he'll be back with a clearer head and a mindful tongue and share his product with us again

I didn't lose my mind or speak out of turn, I also was not banned, you can read the thread here: https://www.ram-trx.com/threads/ram-trx-interchiller-plug-play-kit.17764/

There is a lot of useful information within it as has been mentioned by others.

My ac sucks. It’s always on max and it is eh.

The factory AC system in the TRX is satisfactory, I measured the bone stock TRX vent temps on the same day at idle and cruise Vs our hellcat which is fitted with our stage 1 chiller kit and the hellcat is colder than a stock TRX.

This is one of the reasons why we only support the TRX with our stage 2 kit as our stage 2 kit actually improves the efficiency of the AC system, ensuring the cabin AC is not impacted and the chiller gets nice and cold.

The other home made kits will ALL impact the performance of the cabin AC especially in summer time.
Where as we proved our kit in the heat of summer in Texas and proved the AC is not impacted, something you will NOT find from the home installers as they simply cannot show you that test as they will fail it.

Video of the testing right here:

Are all the chiller condensers made by the same manufacturer and is there differences between the aftermarket brands?

You should have a read of the original thread where this question is answered in more detail, I can again confirm all other kits (sounds like a pitch to only buy FII but it is true) all are a beer wort cooler made for a fluid to fluid heat exchange. In a beer wort the cost of the core is a concern for the homebrewer so it is made as cheap as possible, hence the profit is so good on them. They are not made for refrigerant use, not made for automotive use, not NVH tested or approved, and certainly not made for off road use. Cross contamination is also not a concern for the heat exchanger manufacturer as the intended use is for home brew. They are not going to care if some water is mixed with some beer hops.

Because these cores have a laminar flow they will sludge over time, stripping oil from the AC compressor and resulting in AC compressor failure. Which is also proven when the customers of these home made kits reach out saying they previously were able to get to X degrees but can not anymore as the unit is now sludged with oil + the compressor will be on its way out.

You can read that thread here: https://www.ram-trx.com/threads/ram-trx-interchiller-plug-play-kit.17764/

Do those companies manufacture their own products, or do they source them?
I can’t confirm this, but I read somewhere that a company that I won’t name here, repurposed a beer chiller for their product. I don’t mind that they did that if true, but someone mentioned that they had refrigerant leaking and corrosion issues because of it. Are they chillers designed for the refrigerant used in the TRX, or does this even matter?

FI manufactures their own from what I have seen and they are designed to match our refrigerant. I believe everyone else sources and yes some are beer chillers. IMO FI and IC specialize in this product line while others just dabble in bringing some individual kits to the market. FI has been doing it for decades. Not sure how long for IC. Personally I have never seen anyone beat FI’s performance but from a longevity and bang for buck standpoint I honestly don’t know how the competitors stack up. You might be able to get 75% of the performance with a similar system at lower cost and acceptable quality.

All kits mentioned in this thread are a repurposed beer wort fluid to fluid heat exchanger, other than FI.
This along with many other reasons is why none can get the same results as FII.

These cores do not simply come in different sizes, hell I've seen people use cores bigger than ours and even seen one place using 2 chillers and still not getting even remotely close to our results.

We have screenshots anytime any customer from a competitor contacts us and I can confirm we have had AC compressor failures from all mentioned home made kits, as well as workshops saying X-brand doesn't get as cold in the cabin or the chiller or both and they wish to change the kit out. All of these screenshots can be made available if needed.

My understanding is that you can shut off the chiller and still run the AC, which would allow you to bring the coolant temp up to ambient without sacrificing AC, which would alleviate the warm start issue.

Blocking refrigerant flow to the chiller is not advisable, the amount of refrigerant the chiller uses Vs the cabin is significantly more, if you block flow to the chiller then the AC system immediately becomes overcharged with too much refrigerant. The only way this is possible is to have an extremely small chiller core, which is what the Demon/Redeye has and why they can run cabin only and chiller only, however the chiller is way to small and not much cooling is achieved.

You are far better off tuning the issue out or any of the above options mentioned to resolve the issue manually.

Here’s another dumb Q: what does everyone do when ambient temps are 20-30 degrees or below? Would running your AC/ heat activate the chiller? If so, could that be problematic given how cold ambient temps are??!

Simply throw the system into chiller only mode, set the cabin to your desired temp the chiller will get nice and cold, and you will be nice and toasty. Freezing point of the Anti Freeze is much colder than the boiling point of the refrigerant so there are no issues.

Coldest we have run our chiller in was 12F and snowing.

What I’m struggling with (and in full transparency, this is just one of those nagging questions in my head) is that 1-3 hours after shut down, there is no new air being pulled in through the intake, wouldn’t that moisture have already cleared?

Once the condensation is blown out, as no "new air" as you say has been introduced no more condensation can form. Especially given the fact that the engine is heat soaking and evaporating everything.
This is also proven out why the hot start issue generally only occurs between 45min and 2hrs, between 0-45min the condensation has not dropped, and after 2hrs it has evaporated.

Well after Kirk responded to me within 1 minute and answered almost all my questions after a few back & forth emails, his customer svc appears to be top notch as well. I like the idea of a plug/play system and the condensation issue doesnt seem to be as bad as having to WOT every time before i get home lol so i'm keeping my options open. On the other hand, it does seem that his kit may not be compatible with my behind the grill lights from Brawler so that may be a dealbreaker for that kit.

There is a lot of room up front on the TRX the headlights "should" fit without issue.
I can forward you the instructions which you can review.

I can also say that with the chiller installed I dropped a tool on top of the chiller and was able to reach down and grab it, there is a huge amount of room there even with the chiller installed. Like a lot of room there actually.

 

[Chilly Charlie]

I just want to chime in and say that the chiller system Sumit Goyal and I sell does not have the condensate issue in humid weather. At least as far as we know it has not been an issue on any of our customers vehicles. Sumit does a lot of tuning and we have not had to mess with it on our chiller system even in places like Florida. We specifically designed ours to try to prevent this issue among a few others. There is a reason our system doesn't get as cold as some and honestly its not needed to get temps so low that you have to mess with tuning because of too much condensate. We own IC Chiller for those of you that are not familiar with us.

 

[GenF-GTS]

I just want to chime in and say that the chiller system Sumit Goyal and I sell does not have the condensate issue in humid weather. At least as far as we know it has not been an issue on any of our customers vehicles. Sumit does a lot of tuning and we have not had to mess with it on our chiller system even in places like Florida. We specifically designed ours to try to prevent this issue among a few others. There is a reason our system doesn't get as cold as some and honestly its not needed to get temps so low that you have to mess with tuning because of too much condensate. We own IC Chiller for those of you that are not familiar with us.

Normally wouldn’t give you the time of day but found your post worthy of quoting before it is removed or edited.

You’re showing your inexperience in what you make/sell.

Dew Point and Relative Humidity:
When the air temperature drops below its dew point, excess moisture will be released in the form of condensation.

Any “thing” that lowers the temperature will induce condensation.

Anyone else reading, every 5.4°F (3c) you reduce the intake air temp is worth 1% more oxygen density and 1% more power. Every degree you get colder is worth more and more power.

As proven out with the engineering calculator and a dyno comparison here: https://fiinterchillers.com/tech_ar...eduction-in-intake-temps-1-more-oxygen-power/

 

[Chilly Charlie]

Normally wouldn’t give you the time of day but found your post worthy of quoting before it is removed or edited.

You’re showing your inexperience in what you make/sell.

Dew Point and Relative Humidity:
When the air temperature drops below its dew point, excess moisture will be released in the form of condensation.

Any “thing” that lowers the temperature will induce condensation.

Anyone else reading, every 5.4°F (3c) you reduce the intake air temp is worth 1% more oxygen density and 1% more power. Every degree you get colder is worth more and more power.

Not sure why the insults right off the bat.

The point you aren't bringing up is that oxygen density you are referring to is limited to what is trapped in the blower. You can only make the oxygen that's trapped there denser. You aren't adding additional oxygen. In a standard IHI blower running 10 seconds in a quarter mile pass the blower will consume approximately 350 cubic feet of ambient air. If its say 90 degrees F ambient you are not going to drop 350 cubic feet of air at that temperature through the radiators inside these blowers by more than maybe a couple of degrees which is negligible. Sumit Goyal and I have plenty of data to back this up.

 

[FULLTHROTTLERICK]

Lets keep this PG gentlemen so we all learn something but dont get the thread derailed and shut down again

 

[Chilly Charlie]

Lets keep this PG gentlemen so we all learn something but dont get the thread derailed and shut down again

Agreed. No mud slinging on my end just clearing up facts from misinformation is all.

 

[GenF-GTS]

Customer who tuned and fixed the issue themselves.

As said anything that makes the intake temps colder the ambient will produce condensation.

 

[Chilly Charlie]

Customer who tuned and fixed the issue themselves.

As said anything that makes the intake temps colder the ambient will produce condensation.

When the system is sized properly there is no need for a tune because of excess condensate. Again we knew this was a problem and discussed with our engineers on how to prevent this. As far as I know we don't have any of our dealer/install shops having to tune customers cars because of too much condensate.

 

[FULLTHROTTLERICK]

When the system is sized properly there is no need for a tune because of excess condensate. Again we knew this was a problem and discussed with our engineers on how to prevent this. As far as I know we don't have any of our dealer/install shops having to tune customers cars because of too much condensate.

Were you and Bill ever able to get his IC chiller installed with his behind the gril lights & windshield washer rezzy relocation? I'm the one who's been waiting to hear from you guys ;-)

 

[Chilly Charlie]

Were you and Bill ever able to get his IC chiller installed with his behind the gril lights & windshield washer rezzy relocation? I'm the one who's been waiting to hear from you guys ;-)

We have not. I was super busy getting ready for SEMA. Just got back last Friday so I need to try to pin a day down with him on a weekend before I am off to PRI. Havent forgotten you just gotta find a weekend that works for myself and Bill.

 

[Chilly Charlie]

Yeah okay…

Fundamentals of cooling something below the ambient air temp, creates condensation period.

There was no tuning and engineers you started out with a killer chiller and then made it look a bit better with different foam and Tessa tape. Pics from your pages which are all public.

View attachment 114722

Kirk,

Let me address categorically what you are claiming here so we can clear things up.

First: On condensation I don’t think you are clearly reading what my reply’s said. No one is arguing the fundamentals of cooling and how condensation plays a part in that. My statements clearly said we designed our system to prevent the amount of condensate that causes hard starting. Maybe reread what I stated.

Second: Sumit Goyal and I have never hidden that we reached out to Joe Kincaid (Killer Chiller) and picked his brain since Joe was the original to develop this type of system long before you or us came along. Over 20 years ago in fact. If anyone wants to fact check that you can reach out to John Urist of Hellion Turbos since his shop is only a few blocks down the street from where Joe was. Joe built a system for John back then. I literally had this conversation with John last week at SEMA. Joe’s system worked but had issues with leaking lines. Mainly being he was not using the correct type of connectors for his heat exchanger core or his actual AC lines. Based on our discussions, we built our system differently and started working with OE manufacturer’s. We got rid of the antiquated “bulb” style TXV and went to a more modern, reliable, and efficient block style TXV among many other things we have updated. I have certifications in connectors and conductors and have worked in the field for over 20 years so I know a bit about what hoses and connectors should be used in specific applications.

As for tuning Sumit is an amazing tuner and loves collecting and studying data. We have been working on and testing chiller systems for about 3-4+ years now.

As for engineering we do not share all of our resources but yes we do actually have full access to engineering teams in design and function of AC systems. They are who we work with when building and designing our systems and we literally have a meeting every Tuesday to discuss current projects and future ones as well. You likely don’t know a lot of my background but I have a lot more resources and experience than you will ever know.

Third: Your pictures and screen shots prove what? We have many screen shots from your customer saying that their system is not working even after you make everyone replace their compressor and other parts. You used these exact same tactics and screen shots on social media (Facebook) right after we announce our business partnership in January 2022. The nice thing about forums is you can’t hide from us in the shadows and take jabs at us without having to answer for them. When you claim that your competitor’s chiller systems ruin AC compressors you know this is a lie as well. I can easily explain what causes compressor failures. There are multiple causes but the only way any compressor is going to fail from any chiller on the market including ours, and yours is improper installation, contamination or a compressor that was already on its way out. I understand how the system is lubricated and what’s required to ensure that happens properly.

BTW, we were the 1st company to introduce a no cut and splice system so the customer did not have to cut up their factory lines. Below you can see how far we have come in our development.

 

[GenF-GTS]

Cool story bro!
You released a plug and play hellcat kit before us, you are entrenched in the HC scene being a tuner in that scene.
You convinced people to swap from our "original kit" which had them crimp fittings into rubber hoses to your kit which used premade hoses and CNC fittings.
Our HC kit now uses CNC fittings and pre made hose, and as usual outperforms all home made kits with repurposed fluid to fluid beer coolers.


Anyone watching re-read what was just written above. Screenshots have not been created they are real, happy to share privately without the blurring of workshop names. (Not always a good idea to have workshop names made public without consent).
I am not banned from any Facebook groups.
Also, a reason everyone asks how does your home-made beer cooler compare to FII, we are the baseline, you are not.

 

[unicorn]

oh well - Stop crying - We are growing and there's no stopping our business. Good luck with your business.

Got all the consent - but I don't have to show you

Your are on my ignore list as you have blocked me lol. Beer Chiller is the favorite of 1/4 mile racers.

 

[FULLTHROTTLERICK]

All we need to do is get Ripa back in here and it's a party

 

[Chilly Charlie]

1. Your Ram TRX does cut into the factory rubber AC lines, ours uses CNC fittings.
2. Your TRX kit is not plug and play.
3. You are either admitting that your chiller is inferior, and you do not get very cold, or you simply are playing with people here as you have pics on social media of frosted lines, meaning the condensation inside the intercooler will be greater than the condensation formed on the outside exposed to more external engine bay heat.

Which is it? the chiller is garbage and doesn't get very cold?
Or you are misleading people saying you have solved a condensation issue by not getting very cold?

Either way what would be the point in not getting very cold, don't bother with your kit then it doesn't make it very cold.

The pictures and there are more of them show workshops and customers dropping you.
This one swapped over recently after you were saying try X amount more of refrigerant, as you have not set a charge weight as you guys simply do not have the experience. So it is a case of "try a little more refrigerant" in an attempt to fix your kit which isn't cooling very well. And you expect to cool a TRX with a kit that won't work on a Hellcat Redeye!
View attachment 114807
View attachment 114808

Another workshop dropping you as your kit again is not workingView attachment 114809

Another workshop having issues:View attachment 114810

Another customer of yours again you are providing instructions with vague refrigerant amounts of "try a little more we don't really know what amount to tell you to use and not sure why it doesn't get cold".
View attachment 114811

This one is you talking with a customer after his AC compressor blew up, and he had leaks with your junk plastic water fittings:
View attachment 114812


Should I keep going this is just a handful of them?

Again, to those reading you pay for what you get, and this home operator with an Amazon bought beer wort heat exchanger which is a fluid-to-fluid heat exchanger is not made for refrigerant use, not made for automotive use, not made to withstand NVH, not made for off road use.

You have no idea what you are doing, which is highly evident, good job on your weekly meeting in your home office.

Kirk,
You continually bash on anyone that might threaten you and your business. We could show a lot of unsatisfied customers of yours that switched to us as well. The majority of what you just said in this most recent reply is regurgitated from 2 years ago when you tried to attack us then. You can try to discredit us all you want the fact is we have a very affective system overall that is more compact, just as efficient, and comes with everything to complete the installation on the AC side including complete wiring harnesses. You also claim certain kits of yours are plug n play but factory AC lines have to be cut. And we don't advertise our TRX kit is plug n play. It's so simple to install in the factory lines we didn't feel the need to add additional fittings.

Let's be honest here. Both of our systems work and we have both had customers have issues with our individual systems not functioning as they expected here and there. You and I know how simple the basics of these systems are mechanically. You can try to down play our chiller core all you want as a cheap beer cooler. It's not but we have taken on your claim and it has turned out to be a great sales pitch for us so we can thank you for that.

 

[FULLTHROTTLERICK]

Kirk,
You continually bash on anyone that might threaten you and your business. We could show a lot of unsatisfied customers of yours that switched to us as well. The majority of what you just said in this most recent reply is regurgitated from 2 years ago when you tried to attack us then. You can try to discredit us all you want the fact is we have a very affective system overall that is more compact, just as efficient, and comes with everything to complete the installation on the AC side including complete wiring harnesses. You also claim certain kits of yours are plug n play but factory AC lines have to be cut. And we don't advertise our TRX kit is plug n play. It's so simple to install in the factory lines we didn't feel the need to add additional fittings.

Let's be honest here. Both of our systems work and we have both had customers have issues with our individual systems not functioning as they expected here and there. You and I know how simple the basics of these systems are mechanically. You can try to down play our chiller core all you want as a cheap beer cooler. It's not but we have taken on your claim and it has turned out to be a great sales pitch for us so we can thank you for that.

As long as it's not a bud light beer cooler I'm in

 

[Chilly Charlie]

As long as it's not a bud light beer cooler I'm in

LMAO!!!

 

[TRXNUT]

Well, I'll add this I guess