Race Chip

[Hemy5587]

Just so you’re aware those performance pages have been off by about .3 from what I’ve seen so realistically you’re probably around 12.6 1/4

Hence the only according to part, Id really like to get it to the track to nail down the times better!

Edit: or maybe the red ones are just faster?

 

[durapaul]

piggybacks manipulate map voltage in order to add timing most of the time. this also shows less load on the engine and leans it out a little also increasing power. it also decreases valvebody pressure in the transmission and burns up transmissions. i have seen this with SMT-6 and P1SC-1 piggyback units as well. I have been playing with gen3 hemi engines since 2003 and seen it all. Now its possible the ZF8 isnt as susceptible to this as the NAG1 and 545rfe, but I wouldnt risk is personally. Prefer and actual tune of the ecm.

 

[JumpSquadAuto]

We have another winner thread on our hands. Time to pour fuel all over this fire. @Bambi welcome.

I live for chaos. Aww shucks....@BusaDave, can @jonny_pockets put a seal of approval on this or not?

 

[BusaDave]

It’s a man in the middle box. Similar idea yes, only a much better box.

It grabs downstream sensor data and perverts it to show the ECM something that isn’t happening, to trick it into selecting tune tables with more timing, trimmed AFR, and in the case of turbos, more boost via waste gate manipulation.

what it doesn’t do is adjust the shifts, the throttle sensitivity, the power curve, etc… and because it operates within the ECM’s defined parameters it leaves power on the table compared to a custom tune.

that being said…. You can unplug it and drive to the dealership and it has no warranty implications.

Sorry bud dead wrong there. Do the detailed due diligence and understand what you are talking about Then Post.

 

[Ewea]

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this would be such a controversial thing. Im not interested in stoking the flames.

You guys can continue to debate the merits or not of piggyback tuners I suppose as it’s a debate that will rage forever across platforms, but I’m going to tap out.

I haven’t purchased it and wasn’t planning on doing anything anyway. I just found it interesting and thought I’d throw it to the Wolves.

 

[BusaDave]

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this would be such a controversial thing. Im not interested in stoking the flames.

You guys can continue to debate the merits or not of piggyback tuners I suppose as it’s a debate that will rage forever across platforms, but I’m going to tap out.

I haven’t purchased it and wasn’t planning on doing anything anyway. I just found it interesting and thought I’d throw it to the Wolves.

Not being ugly just factual. Well post more detail and you will understand when I get home. Just have my phone here. Hate typing on it.

 

[TyRX]

Can we get Dave a wizard hat and call him Gandolf the Gray?

 

[Bambi]

I don't have any input on chips but............. COVID came from a lab.

I know nothing about racechips except it sounds shady. I do know that Epstein didn’t kill himself

 

[Bambi]

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this would be such a controversial thing. Im not interested in stoking the flames.

You guys can continue to debate the merits or not of piggyback tuners I suppose as it’s a debate that will rage forever across platforms, but I’m going to tap out.

I haven’t purchased it and wasn’t planning on doing anything anyway. I just found it interesting and thought I’d throw it to the Wolves.

YOUR IDEA WAS BAD AND NOW YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!

 

[Ewea]

YOUR IDEA WAS BAD AND NOW YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!

I should have realized that it is an import Japanese/European thing. Race Chip and Burger JB4 are synonymous with M3, Redsport, Genesis, etc. They’re a known commodity and used frequently. Especially on M3 because they tend to be leased and it’s a quick 100 horsepower that’s easily reversed and sometimes transferred to the next car in 2-3 years.

No… they aren’t common on domestics or exotics. I’ve never run one on any exotics, but they were also a thing on the twin turbo Raptor.

I’m not going to debate the merits or pitfalls though. I’m tapped out. You guys made your voices heard.

 

[Bambi]

I should have realized that it is an import Japanese/European thing. Race Chip and Burger JB4 are synonymous with M3, Redsport, Genesis, etc. They’re a known commodity and used frequently. Especially on M3 because they tend to be leased and it’s a quick 100 horsepower that’s easily reversed and sometimes transferred to the next car in 2-3 years.

No… they aren’t common on domestics or exotics. I’ve never run one on any exotics, but they were also a thing on the twin turbo Raptor.

I’m not going to debate the merits or pitfalls though. I’m tapped out. You guys made your voices heard.

I assume if you blow up the motor on a leased vehicle and they can prove it’s from mods, they have legal recourse to recoup the money.

that must get interesting because it feels like most people leasing euro couldn’t afford paying out 20-30k for a new motor installed.

 

[Ewea]

I assume if you blow up the motor on a leased vehicle and they can prove it’s from mods, they have legal recourse to recoup the money.

that must get interesting because it feels like most people leasing euro couldn’t afford paying out 20-30k for a new motor installed.

Bambi,

In my experience it is the opposite. Anyone with money leases an M3, 4, 5. Why? It’s a throw away car. You lease it as a daily driver and turn it over every couple years. Honestly…. Their resale isn’t great and they aren’t collectible. They’re also not that special. It’s just a fun daily, that’s an upgrade over a domestic. You don’t care if someone spills a coffee in an M3 the same way you’d poop your pants if it was a ——fill in the blank—-

It’s not like an exotic that you want to buy and garage keep. There is a place for that for sure.

That’s why you can find so many of them as lease returns for like 60 grand.

just my experience in my neck of the woods… may not reflect the experiences of everyone.

 

[BusaDave]

Sorry bud dead wrong there. Do the detailed due diligence and understand what you are talking about Then Post.

What I was talking about was only the "You can unplug it and drive to the dealership and it has no warranty implications." part of your post.

Reason is simple. This is not 2010 where it was possible to do this type of thing like with a duration only box on a Cummins that went into the harness after the ECM just as an example. NOW there are so many different engine and transmission parameters monitored and logged by the vehicle that upon examination it will be very clear that there was aftermarket tuning involved (call it chip, box, tuner whatever). It is not only the tune itself which some, who are not up to speed and think you are home free if you bypass that it leaving the ECM locked. It is from the different areas being "monitored" that will not be within operating limits. This means ---You Are Busted.

The manufacturers have gotten much smarter about protecting themselves from people who want to steal from them.

 

[Hemy5587]

I don't think Race Chips is any different than Hypertech, Superchips, Bully Dog, SCT, etc. just based on the information they provide on their website with the "7 fine tuning mappings" statement but @BusaDave is spot on, you will get caught in todays age. Not to say there isn't something left on the table but to unlock it, break something and not get caught is highly unlikely.

 

[durapaul]

I don't think Race Chips is any different than Hypertech, Superchips, Bully Dog, SCT, etc. just based on the information they provide on their website with the "7 fine tuning mappings" statement but @BusaDave is spot on, you will get caught in todays age. Not to say there isn't something left on the table but to unlock it, break something and not get caught is highly unlikely.

They are extremely different. All the ones you mentioned actually change the calibration. Whats being talked about here is a sophisticated manipulation of the signal being transferred to the pcm to trick the pcm into adding/removing fuel or timing.

 

[Hemy5587]

They are extremely different. All the ones you mentioned actually change the calibration. Whats being talked about here is a sophisticated manipulation of the signal being transferred to the pcm to trick the pcm into adding/removing fuel or timing.

6 of one half a dozen of another it manipulates the tune/calibration one way or another. You plug it in, press a button and it changes stuff. Regardless if it changes the pcm directly or uses sensors to trick the pcm, it is being manipulated by the box programming. Regardless of which way it goes about it it changes the calibration and trying to accomplish the same goal. The point is either way you most likely won't get off scott free if something breaks as stated above.

 

[BusaDave]

They are extremely different. All the ones you mentioned actually change the calibration. Whats being talked about here is a sophisticated manipulation of the signal being transferred to the pcm to trick the pcm into adding/removing fuel or timing.

You are in the weeds as well. Just a fact. LOL went over your head like a SR71----has nothing to do with what you posted.

 

[JumpSquadAuto]

They are extremely different. All the ones you mentioned actually change the calibration. Whats being talked about here is a sophisticated manipulation of the signal being transferred to the pcm to trick the pcm into adding/removing fuel or timing.

I think what they are saying is there are built in ways for Ram to detect whatever changes are being done to gain the extra power. Raptors had something similar called the AFE scorcher. pre-ecu re-calibration. Ford could tell when it was installed from the ford connect app. Didn't even need to bring it into a dealer. My phone went off that the truck was making more boost then expected and something could be wrong. Advertised as a dealer can't tell mod.

Ram has bounds for all the things it tracks in the performance pages and I am willing to bet there is a lot they collect that we don't even see. If we were talking 2-5hp then maybe there's a case to be made. If they hook up diagnostics and notice that the truck was consistently making 40 more hp and 30 lb-ft more torque and the fuel and air ratio was way off and the super charger was operating under more psi or any major variation in the metrics outside a normal bound, they will know something was done.

You can trick the pcm/ecu sure (it will still log the variation but no direct indication it was tuned). You still can't trick the sensors inside the motor that collect operation data, compression ratios inside the motor, blower psi, fuel pump data, real time hp and tq numbers, etc. I think that's what everyone's saying.

 

[BusaDave]

I think what they are saying is there are built in ways for Ram to detect whatever changes are being done to gain the extra power. Raptors had something similar called the AFE scorcher. pre-ecu re-calibration. Ford could tell when it was installed from the ford connect app. Didn't even need to bring it into a dealer. My phone went off that the truck was making more boost then expected and something could be wrong. Advertised as a dealer can't tell mod.

Ram has bounds for all the things it tracks in the performance pages and I am willing to bet there is a lot they collect that we don't even see. If we were talking 2-5hp then maybe there's a case to be made. If they hook up diagnostics and notice that the truck was consistently making 40 more hp and 30 lb-ft more torque and the fuel and air ratio was way off and the super charger was operating under more psi or any major variation in the metrics outside a normal bound, they will know something was done.

You can trick the pcm/ecu sure (it will still log the variation but no direct indication it was tuned). You still can't trick the sensors inside the motor that collect operation data, compression ratios inside the motor, blower psi, fuel pump data, real time hp and tq numbers, etc. I think that's what everyone's saying.

Yes this and a lot more........... Exactly!!!

 

[Sammy88]

Just so you’re aware those performance pages have been off by about .3 from what I’ve seen so realistically you’re probably around 12.6 1/4