Psifer Build Thread - Kong 2650 & HHP/BES 426

[Al Bundy]

In theory, just the removal of oil squirters could increase engine knock with lower octane fuel. However, I don't know how significant of a role they play. Unfortunately, almost all 426s I have seen have opted to remove them due to interference. The CP Carillo pistons have additional oilers to keep the wrist pin lubricated. I also don't see the same oil pressure as the factory 6.2L. Fully warmed up at idle, I'm seeing around 60psi with 75-80psi on cold starts and cruising.

I plan on running E85 the majority of the time. 93 pump gas will mainly be used to occasionally clean out the fuel system, during the wintertime, and when traveling out of state.

What oil pump are you using?

 

[Psifer]

What oil pump are you using?

Factory Hellcat oil pump

 

[muddly]

Will be interesting to see how you get all that power to the ground! Awesome build!

 

[Psifer]

Progress is slower than I expected. I believe I have got to the bottom of all the minor discrepancies that we were seeing in the logs.

• Vacuum leak on injector o-ring
• Exhaust leak at collector ball-and-socket connection
• Fouled upstream wideband O2
• PCV lines improperly routed to catch can during reinstallation.

Slowly working through the flex tune and increasing the ethanol content.



FI interchiller is working well! I still need to insulate the coolant and suction lines so there is more room for improvement. Saw a low of 26F for IC coolant temps while cruising today.

 

[Grayghost707]

I have a quote to get an 850hp package from HHP. How happy are you with HHP and the install? I've heard good things about them.

 

[Psifer]

I have a quote to get an 850hp package from HHP. How happy are you with HHP and the install? I've heard good things about them.

I am satisfied to the point that I will be a returning customer with future builds. Everyone from sales to the techs was great to deal with. Both sides kept me up to date as the process went on. Overall, it took a little over a week for them to complete my extensive build. I had over a dozen requests they were all gladly willing to satisfy. The owner, Josh, is a stand-up guy who seems to care more about his reputation than making a profit. I had some issues with existing factory parts I reused with the build that soon failed within 100 miles. HHP wasn't to blame, but wanted to see me satisfied. Josh worked with me to expedite repairs and reduce labor costs even when I didn't ask for anything. His technician even offered to stay late so I could pick it up within the initial timeline set.

This was my first time letting a performance shop work on my vehicle, so I was a little hesitant at first. I've always handled installing bolt-ons and most repairs myself in the past. I'm on the west end of HHP, so I'll continue to use them for any major tasks.

 

[Grayghost707]

I am satisfied to the point that I will be a returning customer with future builds. Everyone from sales to the techs was great to deal with. Both sides kept me up to date as the process went on. Overall, it took a little over a week for them to complete my extensive build. I had over a dozen requests they were all gladly willing to satisfy. The owner, Josh, is a stand-up guy who seems to care more about his reputation than making a profit. I had some issues with existing factory parts I reused with the build that soon failed within 100 miles. HHP wasn't to blame, but wanted to see me satisfied. Josh worked with me to expedite repairs and reduce labor costs even when I didn't ask for anything. His technician even offered to stay late so I could pick it up within the initial timeline set.

This was my first time letting a performance shop work on my vehicle, so I was a little hesitant at first. I've always handled installing bolt-ons and most repairs myself in the past. I'm on the west end of HHP, so I'll continue to use them for any major tasks.

Thanks for the feedback!! This is my first time doing major performance upgrades to any vehicle and I too am hesitant but I appreciate you info. Im only doing 850hp package with cam and headers on 93. I've seen a bunch of trxs with that setup with no issues. My main concern was reliablity with the build.

 

[Louk]

What is the expected power on this build? Pump and e85????

 

[Psifer]

What is the expected power on this build? Pump and e85????

I'm going to have two flex tunes. I'm still working on the first one. The numbers are my estimates based on seeing builds with similar setups. I've lowered my estimates with the TRX due to more drivetrain loss.

Flex tune #1:
3.00" Kong 2650 Pulley, 14.5-15.0psi; 850whp Pump 93 - 1000whp E85
- Safe boost limits for 93, but barely pushing it for E85.

Flex tune #2:
2.35" Kong 2650 Pulley, 22.0-23.0psi; 400whp Pump 93 - 1200whp E85
- Too much boost to push power safely on 93, so the flex-tune will bleed all boost and effectively put the vehicle in "black key mode" like the standard hellcats come with.

The Kong 2650 will be the limiting factor. Whipple 3.8 or Turbos is what I'd need to go to next. I've had too many people that I know locally have multiple failures with their Whipples to realistically consider it. Turbos seem like the smarter move, but I was hoping to do a TT build on a platform that can handle higher top speeds. The internals I have are capable of handling more power, but I'll need to upgrade to an aftermarket block if I want to push beyond 1500hp.

 

[Psifer]

Here are some clips I pulled from the dashcam after doing some WOT testing. Currently on pump E78, low boost, low timing, and a "lower" shift point of 6800rpm.

The last pull was just a 5th gear rollout starting at 3k rpms and let off at 137mph.

 

[Psifer]

I took a break for a few weeks while Z prepped his vehicle for WCF. We have nearly completed the low boost tune; we are just working on minor details. I'm still chasing a very minor air leak, as there is still a small fuel trim imbalance between banks on light-load and idle situations. It's not affecting WOT; that looks perfect in the logs.

The Kong 2650 runs HOT. An interchiller seems necessary if you do not want to be pulling timing mid-pull. I'm curious to see how high the IATs will climb during a hot Summer day.

50°F Ambient, 80% humidity, -425 DA
My IC temps started at 37°F, climbed to 82°F, and then stabilized at 57°F soon after slowing back down to the speed limit. I started in 2nd gear at 25mph, and it was struggling to get traction with the factory ATs.

55°F Ambient, 75% humidity, -50 DA
My IC temps started at 61°F, still cooling off from a previous pull, when I did a 50-150mph pull. The temps climbed to 111°F and then stabilized at 90°F once I slowed back down to highway speeds.

I still have yet to use launch control with the new setup. I'll need some better tires to put the power down. Even then, I imagine my clicking axle will let go soon after. I'll probably hold off until the springtime and then get some Nitto NT555RII and some new front axles.

I'm still waiting on Fuel Injection Depot to release their "max-effort", triple-pump returnless fuel system for the TRX. Until then, I may likely stay on the low-boost setup since I do not want to push my BAS any further.

 

[MurderedCat]

I took a break for a few weeks while Z prepped his vehicle for WCF. We have nearly completed the low boost tune; we are just working on minor details. I'm still chasing a very minor air leak, as there is still a small fuel trim imbalance between banks on light-load and idle situations. It's not affecting WOT; that looks perfect in the logs.

The Kong 2650 runs HOT. An interchiller seems necessary if you do not want to be pulling timing mid-pull. I'm curious to see how high the IATs will climb during a hot Summer day.

50°F Ambient, 80% humidity, -425 DA
My IC temps started at 37°F, climbed to 82°F, and then stabilized at 57°F soon after slowing back down to the speed limit. I started in 2nd gear at 25mph, and it was struggling to get traction with the factory ATs.

55°F Ambient, 75% humidity, -50 DA
My IC temps started at 61°F, still cooling off from a previous pull, when I did a 50-150mph pull. The temps climbed to 111°F and then stabilized at 90°F once I slowed back down to highway speeds.

I still have yet to use launch control with the new setup. I'll need some better tires to put the power down. Even then, I imagine my clicking axle will let go soon after. I'll probably hold off until the springtime and then get some Nitto NT555RII and some new front axles.

I'm still waiting on Fuel Injection Depot to release their "max-effort", triple-pump returnless fuel system for the TRX. Until then, I may likely stay on the low-boost setup since I do not want to push my BAS any further.

That rips, hell yeah brother!

 

[JKMTRX]

I took a break for a few weeks while Z prepped his vehicle for WCF. We have nearly completed the low boost tune; we are just working on minor details. I'm still chasing a very minor air leak, as there is still a small fuel trim imbalance between banks on light-load and idle situations. It's not affecting WOT; that looks perfect in the logs.

The Kong 2650 runs HOT. An interchiller seems necessary if you do not want to be pulling timing mid-pull. I'm curious to see how high the IATs will climb during a hot Summer day.

50°F Ambient, 80% humidity, -425 DA
My IC temps started at 37°F, climbed to 82°F, and then stabilized at 57°F soon after slowing back down to the speed limit. I started in 2nd gear at 25mph, and it was struggling to get traction with the factory ATs.

55°F Ambient, 75% humidity, -50 DA
My IC temps started at 61°F, still cooling off from a previous pull, when I did a 50-150mph pull. The temps climbed to 111°F and then stabilized at 90°F once I slowed back down to highway speeds.

I still have yet to use launch control with the new setup. I'll need some better tires to put the power down. Even then, I imagine my clicking axle will let go soon after. I'll probably hold off until the springtime and then get some Nitto NT555RII and some new front axles.

I'm still waiting on Fuel Injection Depot to release their "max-effort", triple-pump returnless fuel system for the TRX. Until then, I may likely stay on the low-boost setup since I do not want to push my BAS any further.

Awesome, sounds sick! re read the thread and saw your comment in Gen VI 3.8. I think Turbos would be the way to go to make more efficient power.

 

[Viper1500]

That thing sounds awesome. I can't wait to get mine built. Hopefully by end of January.

 

[Justinb491]

I have been going back and forth on the Satera flex set up, any reason you went with Z over Satera for the tuning?

 

[Psifer]

I have been going back and forth on the Satera flex set up, any reason you went with Z over Satera for the tuning?

I knew several people locally who used Z and gave him praise. I chose him as my Tuner before even deciding on going with the flex kit. ZH and Tim Barth are tuners/dealers of the Satera flex kit, and it was an option offered by Z when I first reached out. I went with it, knowing I would eventually extend my build beyond a stock longblock. Inferred flex would no longer be an option at that point, and Z was willing to take on the challenge. I could not give him enough praise. He's very meticulous and responsive.

 

[Justinb491]

Makes sense, thanks for the response.

 

[Psifer]

I got a Dragy so I can upload some times when the weather improves. The cold, dense air(<30F) is resulting in a peak of 17psi of boost, so I need to stay off full throttle when on 93 pump gas. I'm burning through a tank now to clean out the fuel system, and then I will be back on ethanol.

In the meantime, I need to address some coolant leaks. I have a few fittings dripping from the intercooler loop and a leaking radiator. I am converting the IC loop to AN, along with adding a 3-way bypass and heat exchanger.

The interchiller performs well, but I'm not a fan of the various procedures needed to get the AC active during the wintertime. Sometimes it's just too cold out that I can't get the truck hot enough to bring the AC low-side pressure above 40psi, which allows the compressor to kick on. The 3-way bypass and heat exchanger will address those headaches while providing a backup cooling option in case I have issues with my AC system.

I'd also like to turn up the boost for a dedicated E85 tune, but I'm still waiting on Fuel Injection Depot to release their "max effort" fuel system kit for the TRX. I may just end up trying what Aftermarket Industries has to offer.

 

[RS1]

I got a Dragy so I can upload some times when the weather improves. The cold, dense air(<30F) is resulting in a peak of 17psi of boost, so I need to stay off full throttle when on 93 pump gas. I'm burning through a tank now to clean out the fuel system, and then I will be back on ethanol.

In the meantime, I need to address some coolant leaks. I have a few fittings dripping from the intercooler loop and a leaking radiator. I am converting the IC loop to AN, along with adding a 3-way bypass and heat exchanger.

The interchiller performs well, but I'm not a fan of the various procedures needed to get the AC active during the wintertime. Sometimes it's just too cold out that I can't get the truck hot enough to bring the AC low-side pressure above 40psi, which allows the compressor to kick on. The 3-way bypass and heat exchanger will address those headaches while providing a backup cooling option in case I have issues with my AC system.

I'd also like to turn up the boost for a dedicated E85 tune, but I'm still waiting on Fuel Injection Depot to release their "max effort" fuel system kit for the TRX. I may just end up trying what Aftermarket Industries has to offer.

Hey man, I’ve got a 2650 on my truck with the 130mm TB and a custom grind cam making 1010whp.
Do you have any surge issues in manual mode? My truck is built and tuned by Barth and we have been fighting this surge for a while now.
It’s nearly gone in auto but in manual mode above 3k at certain loads it surges and bucks pretty good at light throttle.

 

[Psifer]

Hey man, I’ve got a 2650 on my truck with the 130mm TB and a custom grind cam making 1010whp.
Do you have any surge issues in manual mode? My truck is built and tuned by Barth and we have been fighting this surge for a while now.
It’s nearly gone in auto but in manual mode above 3k at certain loads it surges and bucks pretty good at light throttle.

I do not have any symptoms like that. The driving behavior is the same between auto and manual for me. The only time I have experienced something remotely similar to that is when I've been out of boost for a while with the IC temps below the dew point. I suspect some condensation from the IC bricks makes its way into the piston chamber. It's not super common, and I'm able to entirely avoid the situation if I keep my IC temps above the dew point.

Out of curiosity, what upper pulley size are you running, and did you get your Kong 2650 ported?