Lets Talk Chillers and Cooling

[Chilly Charlie]

Wish i knew but i can tell you it probably didnt help that we had to switch refrigerants like 3x (long story) and had major issues getting the correct amount of refrigerant into the system.

PSA = For anyone out there looking at chillers, make sure you have a pro recharge your system. Those rattle cans from Advance/autozone/etc just arent reliable for recharging a system from empty

Vacuuming down properly, using the correct refrigerant, and adding the correct amount are definitely critical. And some people will grab the "recharge" type cans that have supposed sealant and "re-conditioner" in them and that stuff is garbage and can harm the AC system. We require pure refrigerant when installing our system. Sorry you went through all of that. AC systems are not cheap and neither is the newer r1234yf refrigerant.

 

[AZDinoPwr]

I completely understand not wanting to get into a pissing match over vendors and I am not about that either. When it comes to extreme temperatures an AC system can only do so much being limited by its size for sure. We have a lot of vehicles running our system in the UAE/GCC where it gets even hotter than Arizona and even without a chiller system their AC systems struggle. They typically run our 3 way coolant bypass and run a larger heat exchanger for the intercooler for driving during the day so their cabin AC can keep up as best it can without the additional heat load of the chiller system then they run the chiller in the evenings which is also when they are racing. As you have already mentioned the factory AC system is the limiting factor in those extremely high heat situations.

Regarding the hard starting issues there is a balance between optimal cooling and diminishing returns. We have had access to some very smart engineers that specialize in HVAC specific to the heavy equipment and the automotive industry and we worked with them on our system when we were doing our R&D. There is a reason our core is the size it is and we use the specific components/valves we do. Our system doesn't create enough condensate to cause the hard start issues. The only vehicles we have had a condensate issue with is the Audi R8 and Lamborghini Huracan that run the V10. We work with a shop back east that builds these cars with twin turbo's and they are the only vehicles that we have ran into this issue during roll racing. In that specific situation they use our refrigerant valve to regulate the coolant temperature so it doesn't get cold enough to cause that issue but still allows proper cooling and keep IAT's in check.

Making a chiller too cold can cause multiple issues and a bigger one is the excess buildup of condensate. Our system does not get as cold as some others for this very reason. Not to mention making it run colder pulls more tonnage from cabin AC. We designed our system to be as efficient as possible while minimizing the impact on cabin AC as much as possible.

I hear you but that doesn’t track my own experience with your kit on a past vehicle. The few times I operated the chiller only mode in humid climates I had hard start issues on e85. I mean, your own advertising posts pictures of intercooler temps in the 30s where condensate will form.

It’s just a reality of the thermodynamics of the system. It has nothing to do with the function of the system (how the coolant gets to temp) and everything to do with the result of the function of the system (the actual coolant temp). Don’t see it nearly as much on pump gas or when driving in cabin mode but it’s absolutely a reality in chiller only mode which is the point I was making in my original post.

(Btw fellow engineer here who also has a specialty in thermodynamics and fluids)

 

[SRG_Joe]

We have you covered https://solisracinggroup.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=56740&action=edit

 

[Chilly Charlie]

I hear you but that doesn’t track my own experience with your kit on a past vehicle. The few times I operated the chiller only mode in humid climates I had hard start issues on e85. I mean, your own advertising posts pictures of intercooler temps in the 30s where condensate will form.

It’s just a reality of the thermodynamics of the system. It has nothing to do with the function of the system (how the coolant gets to temp) and everything to do with the result of the function of the system (the actual coolant temp). Don’t see it nearly as much on pump gas or when driving in cabin mode but it’s absolutely a reality in chiller only mode which is the point I was making in my original post.

(Btw fellow engineer here who also has a specialty in thermodynamics and fluids)

Yes pictures that we have and still do share show frozen lines but that's typically on a much cooler day.

As for the hard starting you would be literally the first person I've ever heard to have had that issue to my knowledge aside from the twin turbo v10's I spoke of earlier and those were because of the unique intake runner and how the intercooler system is set up on that specific setup. I cant help but wonder if it wasn't more related to the E85 or fueling in general. I am not saying that your issue wasn't related to condensate but it would be the only one we have heard having that issue.

I run our system on my personal Hellcat and have never had any issue hot starting the car or trouble with condensate causing starting issues. My business partner runs it on his as well with no issues.

The engineering team we worked with specifically helped us set the parameters of our system to prevent that from happening as they knew it would be an issue if we ran our system too cold and there really isnt any reason to run any colder as there is no advantage to doing so. When we first started working on our system we were admittedly a bit naive and thought we wanted ours to be colder than any competitor and that's when we found out about the condensation issue.

Unfortunately because of bad information on line a lot of people get caught up on the frozen lines and who can get the coldest temps from their chiller system when that doesn't really make the system work better or give better performance. The goal of these systems is to prevent heat soak and pulling engine timing. At the end of the day we are pulling in ambient air into the engine regardless of how low we get the coolant temps. There's no making winter air in the summer unless you want to run nitrous. LOL

I want to be clear here too. I appreciate your input. You bring up some good points. I dont want to come across as arguing with you and I know text can leave out "tone" and sometimes intent or context. Just a friendly discussion.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I'm just waiting on PWR to release their heat exchanger at this point.

I like the idea of a chiller, but only if it operates like on the Demon where it's normally off and you can trigger it on when you're at the drag strip. That's really the best of both worlds.

I'm sure I could rig my FI setup to do just that, but I want to get the normal cooling correct before I do.

 

[AZDinoPwr]

Yes pictures that we have and still do share show frozen lines but that's typically on a much cooler day.

As for the hard starting you would be literally the first person I've ever heard to have had that issue to my knowledge aside from the twin turbo v10's I spoke of earlier and those were because of the unique intake runner and how the intercooler system is set up on that specific setup. I cant help but wonder if it wasn't more related to the E85 or fueling in general. I am not saying that your issue wasn't related to condensate but it would be the only one we have heard having that issue.

I run our system on my personal Hellcat and have never had any issue hot starting the car or trouble with condensate causing starting issues. My business partner runs it on his as well with no issues.

The engineering team we worked with specifically helped us set the parameters of our system to prevent that from happening as they knew it would be an issue if we ran our system too cold and there really isnt any reason to run any colder as there is no advantage to doing so. When we first started working on our system we were admittedly a bit naive and thought we wanted ours to be colder than any competitor and that's when we found out about the condensation issue.

Unfortunately because of bad information on line a lot of people get caught up on the frozen lines and who can get the coldest temps from their chiller system when that doesn't really make the system work better or give better performance. The goal of these systems is to prevent heat soak and pulling engine timing. At the end of the day we are pulling in ambient air into the engine regardless of how low we get the coolant temps. There's no making winter air in the summer unless you want to run nitrous. LOL

I want to be clear here too. I appreciate your input. You bring up some good points. I dont want to come across as arguing with you and I know text can leave out "tone" and sometimes intent or context. Just a friendly discussion.

I hear ya and appreciate the conversation. The problem doesn’t occur often on pump gas builds. Not sure if your hellcat is on e85 or pump gas. The issue is the combination of e85 with the condensate. Trying to start watered down e85 isn’t easy. I have seen the same issues happen on my CTSV and TRX when running high ethanol content. We have had two members on this forum who live in Florida voice the same frustrations and at least one of them uninstalled his chiller because of it. I honestly don’t remember if he was running an IC or FI kit.