Remove restrictive air filter and test HP increase.

JRex

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Just wondering if anyone has just taken out the air filter completely and seen how much the HP numbers go up. As FCA states the reason the TRX hellcat HP are lower than other application is the restrictive fine sand filtering air filter.

I think the performance pages display how much horsepower the engine is putting out at any given time?

Kinda a quick and dirty, K&N high flow filter test that usually gives you 10-15% more power, but with no filter restriction.

If you dont live by a desert where you can just go out and go nuts, and they dont really let you drive all out on beach front. How many really need that super restrictive air filtering system.

I understand its purpose built truck, but even 10% of 702 HP is another 70, and usually K&N give you 10%.

It would be interesting test. Might have to find a 4WD dyno and try it.

Any input appreciated.
 

Bambi

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Sorry but in no car I have ever owned do you get 10-15% more power from swapping a filter.

i’ll try it when I get on a dyno first time
 

Bambi

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I think maybe you get 3-5hp gain max at the wheels
 

Scott

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I own 2 Harley dealerships. We have never gained anywhere near 10-15% from a high flow air filter. I’ve also never seen hp gains from performance spark plugs or plug wires.
 

Srtgeek

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Change the way it breathes... sure, a filter helps but that's the minority part.

Change the entire plastic piece with something cf ( like Legmaker has been doing for years with the Charger, Challenger and Trackhawks) so it's smoooth. Yes I am aware this doesn't exist yet. 😂

Then change the throttle body to a ported/polished so there is less restriction. You're going to smile at the louder whine, and the extra tq/hp but let's be honest.. you're not going to notice the extra 2-3-4% increase if you're able to get it in the first place. 25hp/tq area is the more likely scenario, if a cf intake was created that is. I know Bwoody was talking about doing something, odds are aluminum and therefore... it heats up and sadly, holds heat thus removing the cold from cold air... but damn it sounds good!

No cai/filter swap will give you 10%, at least not one that can be measured on a dyno.
 

Bambi

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I’d be pretty happy with a 25hp gain from intake and TB alone.

@Distilled DesignWorks is making a cf tube. Should me smoother(more) airflow. I don’t know who is making throttlebodies but if its the same as the HC it should ge easy
 

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I’d be pretty happy with a 25hp gain from intake and TB alone.

@Distilled DesignWorks is making a cf tube. Should me smoother(more) airflow. I don’t know who is making throttlebodies but if its the same as the HC it should ge easy
It's the exact same set up for throttlebody. I have seen person after person drink the kool aid that bigger is better but that's not how it works, the largest that record positive gains is around 95-99mm, where as the tb's at 105 etc don't see additional gains that are measurable on dynos. of course they say otherwise, still waiting on the dunos to back that up. I wish it were true, I'd happily pay more if it did more.

Thefastman uses the same mopar tb, or you can send yours to him. Google "thefastman throttlebodies". He (Daniel Arcand) has been making tb's for hellcat's since 2015. I have personally used his tb's on my hellcats ranging from Challengers to Trackhawk and his work is great. Some people are put off by him because he has no issue telling someone when they're wrong. He's a car guy, not a salesman trying to sell you something you don't need.

Maybe it's all bs and we just feel better spending more money on our rides to create small incremental gains we won't notice.

🤔

nah.
 

Distilled DesignWorks

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It's the exact same set up for throttlebody. I have seen person after person drink the kool aid that bigger is better but that's not how it works, the largest that record positive gains is around 95-99mm, where as the tb's at 105 etc don't see additional gains that are measurable on dynos. of course they say otherwise, still waiting on the dunos to back that up. I wish it were true, I'd happily pay more if it did more.

Thefastman uses the same mopar tb, or you can send yours to him. Google "thefastman throttlebodies". He (Daniel Arcand) has been making tb's for hellcat's since 2015. I have personally used his tb's on my hellcats ranging from Challengers to Trackhawk and his work is great. Some people are put off by him because he has no issue telling someone when they're wrong. He's a car guy, not a salesman trying to sell you something you don't need.

Maybe it's all bs and we just feel better spending more money on our rides to create small incremental gains we won't notice.

🤔

nah.
With a stock blower sure. Adding the bigger throttle body without porting the snout creates a step that would cause turbulence. Why would you put a bigger throttle on and not at least port the snout??? If your porting the snout and blower of course it's going to make more power with a bigger throttle body. There are lots of Dyno sheets that prove that. Throttle body and porting go hand in hand.
 
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Bambi

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It's the exact same set up for throttlebody. I have seen person after person drink the kool aid that bigger is better but that's not how it works, the largest that record positive gains is around 95-99mm, where as the tb's at 105 etc don't see additional gains that are measurable on dynos. of course they say otherwise, still waiting on the dunos to back that up. I wish it were true, I'd happily pay more if it did more.

Thefastman uses the same mopar tb, or you can send yours to him. Google "thefastman throttlebodies". He (Daniel Arcand) has been making tb's for hellcat's since 2015. I have personally used his tb's on my hellcats ranging from Challengers to Trackhawk and his work is great. Some people are put off by him because he has no issue telling someone when they're wrong. He's a car guy, not a salesman trying to sell you something you don't need.

Maybe it's all bs and we just feel better spending more money on our rides to create small incremental gains we won't notice.

🤔

nah.
I was going to say what others did about boost. I typically do dyno runs after eack mod to verify gains. If nothing I send it back half the time unless i expected nothing
 
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JRex

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Bambi

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Sorry guys, meant 10-15HP.

From K&N

I don’t believe them. If I got 10-15 out of a new cai/filter I would be really happy let alone just a filter change. Do you have a 4 wheel dyno near you? Go test it. I would be curious as to the result.
 

Srtgeek

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With a stock blower sure. Adding the bigger throttle body without porting the snout creates a step that would cause turbulence. Why would you put a bigger throttle on and not at least port the snout??? If your porting the snout and blower of course it's going to make more power with a bigger throttle body. There are lots of Dyno sheets that prove that. Throttle body and porting go hand in hand.
This is exactly why I said don't go with a larger one. 👍, (unless you are porting the snout)

You are able to go with a larger TB that comes stock on the TRX without having any step or turbulence depending on which tb you buy. I can't speak for other companies, and I have never met Dan with TheFastMan but I have used his products for years without error codes or issues, doing the install myself in under 20 minutes.

From thefastman website:

Casting is cleaned and the bores are either opened up to the new bigger size or bored out just enough to clean up the casting to insure clean air flow. The openings are optimized with a radius blending into a taper down to the straight bore to insure the smoothest airflow removing any built in restrictions common to most of the Dodge TB's. The shaft going through the bores is modified or completely replaced with a Custom Stainless Steel unit. The Blades are normally replaced with brand new Custom made thin Brass Blades with the correct factory angles

There is a user in the Hellcat . org forums, 16GoManGoHC who took the time to take photos and measure things, explain it far better than I could.

The Fastman 95mm TB has 9.61% more opening area then a 92 mm stock TB bore alone. The 99 is not mm of opening it’s the calculated minus half the shaft cross sectional increase in total % more open the FM TB is compared to the stock 92 mm TB. 10% doesn’t sound like allot but in cfm it is.

FastMan 95mm TB the bore is opened up to 95 mm and the butterfly is replaced with a new custom 95mm diameter butterfly. Also one side of the cross shaft is removed cutting out that flow restriction area as well. A 92 mm TB has a area of 6647 sq mm’s, a 95 mm TB has an area of 7088 Sq mm’s. That’s a 7% increase in opening area size, it has to be less restrictive and flow more air over stock

I'll attach his photos he added to the post. Top TB is stock, bottom is TheFastMan.

image1.jpg

image2.jpg

image3.jpg

screen4.jpg
(stock hc throttle body snout)

I don't build engines so there are many in here far smarter than I on this, ha. I am just posting his findings. I had this tb on my cats, I am not sure I noticed much of a jump but I never just installed this mod and that was it. Every time I added a tb, I was also adding a legmaker cf intake and combined, the airflow increased so the whine was louder and the supposedly a small bump in hp/tq but again... will we notice it? Probably not.

I'm interested in hearing opinions from guys that build engines and hopefully can post photos/data with their findings?
 

zillacon

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I walked into the house the other day and my wife had the TV on for the Pups and it was one of the Motortrend channels. Anyways they had a Chevy small block on the Dyno and they were testing to see if they got any HP gains from different engine oils, spacers, different air filters and no filters at all. No matter what they did they only seen 1-2 HP gains max and in some instances none at all.
 

Bambi

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I walked into the house the other day and my wife had the TV on for the Pups and it was one of the Motortrend channels. Anyways they had a Chevy small block on the Dyno and they were testing to see if they got any HP gains from different engine oils, spacers, different air filters and no filters at all. No matter what they did they only seen 1-2 HP gains max and in some instances none at all.
That jives with my experience. I still use ultra premium full synthetic oil but it’s certainly not for hp gains.
 

thewrx

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Thats a pretty funny statement right there, you would probably end up losing HP if you just remove your airfilter as the calibration will not be optimized to the changed intake track.

There are a lot better options to get hp, than removing your airfilter, and safer ones too!
Just wondering if anyone has just taken out the air filter completely and seen how much the HP numbers go up. As FCA states the reason the TRX hellcat HP are lower than other application is the restrictive fine sand filtering air filter.

I think the performance pages display how much horsepower the engine is putting out at any given time?

Kinda a quick and dirty, K&N high flow filter test that usually gives you 10-15% more power, but with no filter restriction.

If you dont live by a desert where you can just go out and go nuts, and they dont really let you drive all out on beach front. How many really need that super restrictive air filtering system.

I understand its purpose built truck, but even 10% of 702 HP is another 70, and usually K&N give you 10%.

It would be interesting test. Might have to find a 4WD dyno and try it.

Any input appreciated.
 
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