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Bambi

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Bambi

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I am completely unreasonable when it comes to the gov interfering with my own pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. On that point, to hell with everyone else. My (or anyones) liberty is more important than some nebulous idea of safety and the greater good

I call BS on the whole "anyone's liberty fairy tail". How about the liberty of some A hole that sneaks into your house at night and wants to rob you? You don't care about their liberty and nor should you. The word liberty as a whole is over used, and mostly a lie the powers to be feed us that we have. And if you look at many situations in life that are not as extreme you will see that you are basically saying you do not want to be bothered with anything that disagree with your opinion :ROFLMAO:
Which is fine as long as you keep it real and say it as it is....
 
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I call BS on the whole "anyone's liberty fairy tail". How about the liberty of some A hole that sneaks into your house at night and wants to rob you? You don't care about their liberty and nor should you. The word liberty as a whole is over used, and mostly a lie the powers to be feed us that we have. And if you look at many situations in life that are not as extreme you will see that you are basically saying you do not want to be bothered with anything that disagree with your opinion :ROFLMAO:
Which is fine as long as you keep it real and say it as it is....
Liberty isn’t freedom from consequences… like that burglar in my house about to have extra holes in them.

i’m saying I’ll pay my “fair share” of taxes for roads, infrastructure, military, police, fire, etc. You know, the things the fed was actually started to do.

i am saying I don’t want to be bothered. Is that wrong? Disagreement is totally fine. Compelling behavior through government force isn’t cool.
 

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Liberty isn’t freedom from consequences… like that burglar in my house about to have extra holes in them.

i’m saying I’ll pay my “fair share” of taxes for roads, infrastructure, military, police, fire, etc. You know, the things the fed was actually started to do.

i am saying I don’t want to be bothered. Is that wrong? Disagreement is totally fine. Compelling behavior through government force isn’t cool.
Absolutely! I thought medical decisions are between you and your doctor.....NOT the federal government. That's the over reach progressives are attempting. Liberty isn't a fairy tale. It's quickly becoming history though.....
 

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Liberty isn’t freedom from consequences… like that burglar in my house about to have extra holes in them.

i’m saying I’ll pay my “fair share” of taxes for roads, infrastructure, military, police, fire, etc. You know, the things the fed was actually started to do.

i am saying I don’t want to be bothered. Is that wrong? Disagreement is totally fine. Compelling behavior through government force isn’t cool.
@Bambi - brother, when you say it this way I totally agree with you :cool:
But the point I would like to make is that "compelling behavior through government force" is what we do all day every day, from seat belts to what toilet you can buy and install, we are all regulated by the gov.
And we all live fine with that "oppression" up to a point, just throw in the word equity and rights to the discussion and the woke are going ballistic, insert the word liberty or guns and the far right reaches for the nukes.
And I for one want disagreement. I want opposing views. I believe you learn nothing from talking to people that think exactly like you, you can only become less rooted in reality.
 

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Absolutely! I thought medical decisions are between you and your doctor.....NOT the federal government. That's the over reach progressives are attempting. Liberty isn't a fairy tale. It's quickly becoming history though.....
@JayRay - and if not for the fact that in most states you cannot send your kid to school or summer camp if they are not vaccinated, that argument would be true. I'm against people telling me what to do, just like you. But that ship has sailed 50 years ago with the vaccines. Now it is just a new vaccine in a strange world that makes politics of how much sugar you put in you coffee. So while I'm against mandating the vaccine, as I believe in natural selection, I have to acknowledge that we are forcing vaccines on people all the time...
 

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@JayRay - and if not for the fact that in most states you cannot send your kid to school or summer camp if they are not vaccinated, that argument would be true. I'm against people telling me what to do, just like you. But that ship has sailed 50 years ago with the vaccines. Now it is just a new vaccine in a strange world that makes politics of how much sugar you put in you coffee. So while I'm against mandating the vaccine, as I believe in natural selection, I have to acknowledge that we are forcing vaccines on people all the time...
I understand that reasoning, but I do not agree that this vaccine.....or these vaccines since there are 3 different ones for covid, have been tested for a long enough period of time. They were clearly rushed and to be told take it, or lose your job is bullshit. I'm not saying that about the tried and true vaccines. The media telling us that the 3 covid vaccines have an incredibly safe track record is pure BS....they haven't been out even remotely long enough to make that claim, and that was them telling us this nonsense a month after they rolled out. I'm not buying it. This federal mandate is just the first step.....
 

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I understand that reasoning, but I do not agree that this vaccine.....or these vaccines since there are 3 different ones for covid, have been tested for a long enough period of time. They were clearly rushed and to be told take it, or lose your job is bullshit. I'm not saying that about the tried and true vaccines. The media telling us that the 3 covid vaccines have an incredibly safe track record is pure BS....they haven't been out even remotely long enough to make that claim, and that was them telling us this nonsense a month after they rolled out. I'm not buying it. This federal mandate is just the first step.....
I totally agree with you that you cannot trust the media. But here is how I look at it and made my decision:

Long term damage:
We do not know if these vaccines cause long term damage, we have no reason to conjecture either way at this point.
We do not know if contracting COVID causes long term damage as well, but have some indications it does.

Short term damage:
After more then a billion (B) people have been vaccinated, there is almost no evidence of real short term damage.
After so 4.5 million people dyeing of COVID we do have evidence of short term damage.

So the risk assessment shows the vaccine as a better choice. The idea that someone can know for sure the effects of either the disease or the vaccine at this point is just unscientific, so you are left with risk assessment based on available data as your only decision making source. And even if the 4.5 million deaths is more then the real number, there is no way that the government, ours or any for that matter, could have hidden a million deaths as a result of the vaccine.
So while I do not trust the data to be 100% accurate on any front, the law of big numbers suggests that it is good enough to make a decision.
 
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But the point I would like to make is that "compelling behavior through government force" is what we do all day every day, from seat belts to what toilet you can buy and install, we are all regulated by the gov.
Yes. And I strongly disagree
 
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And we all live fine with that "oppression" up to a point, just throw in the word equity and rights to the discussion and the woke are going ballistic, insert the word liberty or guns and the far right reaches for the nukes.
And I for one want disagreement. I want opposing views. I believe you learn nothing from talking to people that think exactly like you, you can only become less rooted in reality.
We all live fine with oppression? You are ok with this? The folks in NK also “live fine” with oppression. Want to move?

The word liberty shouldn’t be a political football
 

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We all live fine with oppression? You are ok with this? The folks in NK also “live fine” with oppression. Want to move?

The word liberty shouldn’t be a political football
Brother Bambi, this is where you are buying into the propaganda a bit, when you think you ever had any real liberty.
My point is that there is no true absolute freedom or liberty. It is just matter of shades.
Will I let anyone hurt me or my family, you bet not, I'm armed and ready.
But there are so many infractions on your personal choices that come from living in society that the whole liberty argument is somewhat an illusion. Speed limits, property setbacks. No parking zones. These are all infractions on my liberty to do what I want. But I accept them as part of living in a society that also protects me.

Maybe we should get the discussion back to what can you do for your country and countrymen? Imagine the US soldiers in WW2 going, hey I do not want to give up my liberty to fight some damn German.
 
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Brother Bambi, this is where you are buying into the propaganda a bit, when you think you ever had any real liberty.
My point is that there is no true absolute freedom or liberty. It is just matter of shades.
Will I let anyone hurt me or my family, you bet not, I'm armed and ready.
But there are so many infractions on your personal choices that come from living in society that the whole liberty argument is somewhat an illusion. Speed limits, property setbacks. No parking zones. These are all infractions on my liberty to do what I want. But I accept them as part of living in a society that also protects me.

Maybe we should get the discussion back to what can you do for your country and countrymen? Imagine the US soldiers in WW2 going, hey I do not want to give up my liberty to fight some damn German.
So because there are already infringements we should be cool with them and more? That argument doesn’t wash.

If I was of age during ww2 I would’ve gone to fight by choice. Yes the draft is an infringement which we no longer have.
 
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I totally agree with you that you cannot trust the media. But here is how I look at it and made my decision:

Long term damage:
We do not know if these vaccines cause long term damage, we have no reason to conjecture either way at this point.
We do not know if contracting COVID causes long term damage as well, but have some indications it does.

Short term damage:
After more then a billion (B) people have been vaccinated, there is almost no evidence of real short term damage.
After so 4.5 million people dyeing of COVID we do have evidence of short term damage.

So the risk assessment shows the vaccine as a better choice. The idea that someone can know for sure the effects of either the disease or the vaccine at this point is just unscientific, so you are left with risk assessment based on available data as your only decision making source. And even if the 4.5 million deaths is more then the real number, there is no way that the government, ours or any for that matter, could have hidden a million deaths as a result of the vaccine.
So while I do not trust the data to be 100% accurate on any front, the law of big numbers suggests that it is good enough to make a decision.
I agree with the majority of what you said. I really am not comfortable about the federal government mandating the jab and the consequences it is putting on those who do not feel that they should be forced to comply. Common sense is getting killed by the left. That's not open to interpretation....thats a fact. No reasonable person is going to argue that if you only need 2 gallons of water to flush your toilet, you can't have a 5 gallon shitter. That's common sense.... it doesn't really affect anyone. Getting forced essentially to get the jab or lose your career, does.
 

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It’s not about whether getting the vaccine is a good idea. Or even if mandating it is a good idea. It’s about whether you think government should function like this or not.

Just like the moratorium on evictions last month, Joe Biden is again knowingly engaging in unconstitutional governance. He knows the vaccine mandate as it is composed will not survive it’s legal challenges. But he also knows the courts move slowly, and he will get the result he wanted (more vaccinations) before anything gets overturned.

You cannot seriously compare constitutionally passed laws against speeding to this type of autocratic overreach. It ain’t that much different than what our WWII vets were fighting against.
 

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I agree with the majority of what you said. I really am not comfortable about the federal government mandating the jab and the consequences it is putting on those who do not feel that they should be forced to comply. Common sense is getting killed by the left. That's not open to interpretation....thats a fact. No reasonable person is going to argue that if you only need 2 gallons of water to flush your toilet, you can't have a 5 gallon shitter. That's common sense.... it doesn't really affect anyone. Getting forced essentially to get the jab or lose your career, does.
You give them the shitter and they go onto take the next thing. shitters have never worked the same since switching to 2.3 and now 1.6 gallons. People now flush 3-10 times. Do the math, libtard 'progress' has never helped anyone but elites that want power, influence and control.
 
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