Oil preference and filter

RamRex · Mar 8, 2024

Ev_nev_R said:
For the guys running red line oil, what oil filter are you using?

I use the royal purple 20-820

Mark23trx · Mar 10, 2024

MyWifeLetMe said:
I did the same, bought the PUP in bulk, after seeing some oil analysis from other members, started changing the oil at 2,000 miles to use it up quicker and before it drops viscosity. Bought amsoil for my next 2 oil changes and will send off an oil sample to see the difference between the 2 oils(probably go 4,000 mile oil changes with amsoil)

Keep me posted sir if possible prob do the same(2k miles).

SCARd4Life · Mar 12, 2024

OnTheReel said:
I was going off the VOA I had done on the PUP a few years ago just to keep the data from a consistent lab. It is/was 12.76 to be specific. I doubt the formula changed since, but I obviously cant rule that out.View attachment 124715

@OnTheReel This just came back this morning. Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low, just like PUP. Would like to know what you think. Should I go back to PUP?

For those following at home, the first sample (JAN23, third column) was PUP and the most recent (FEB24, first column) was Schaeffer's, so this gives an interesting side-by-side comparison. The additive package for the PUP sample was more depleted, so you need to make some allowance for that.

MyWifeLetMe · Mar 12, 2024

SCARd4Life said:
@OnTheReel This just came back this morning. Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low, just like PUP. Would like to know what you think. Should I go back to PUP?

For those following at home, the first sample (JAN23, third column) was PUP and the most recent (FEB24, first column) was Schaeffer's, so this gives an interesting side-by-side comparison. The additive package for the PUP sample was more depleted, so you need to make some allowance for that.

View attachment 125058

1,000 hours, or 1,000 miles on oil?

OnTheReel · Mar 12, 2024

SCARd4Life said:
@OnTheReel This just came back this morning. Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low, just like PUP. Would like to know what you think. Should I go back to PUP?

For those following at home, the first sample (JAN23, third column) was PUP and the most recent (FEB24, first column) was Schaeffer's, so this gives an interesting side-by-side comparison. The additive package for the PUP sample was more depleted, so you need to make some allowance for that.

View attachment 125058

I will assume 1000 miles. Not what I was hoping to see. When you consider the Schaeffer had half the mileage and starts at 13.5-14.7 cSt (according to their data sheet) it actually performed worse than the PUP in terms of viscosity. I agree with their assertion that some engines (like this one) are harder on oil but disagree with downplaying the significance.

As I’ve discussed before, Blackstone using the reduction in flashpoint to estimate fuel content is flawed so we may not have all of the context behind the drop in viscosity. However I see nothing to suggest that fuel would be at an extreme level in either of those samples, so shear is likely at play.

All in all it’s one low mileage sample, a snapshot in time. I am hesitant to outright condemn it and I would be just as hesitant to recommend it if it did well. I never base my personal selections off of just one test. If you went back with Schaeffer I would consider testing again next year at another lab and we can get more of the story.

SCARd4Life · Mar 12, 2024

MyWifeLetMe said:
1,000 hours, or 1,000 miles on oil?

Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low.

1,146 to be exact. Miles (oil/unit) are listed at the top of the table.

IdahoKTM · Mar 12, 2024

SCARd4Life said:
Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low.

1,146 to be exact. Miles (oil/unit) are listed at the top of the table.

1000 hours can't be right. At an average of 40 mph, that would be 40,000 miles.

Why is there a difference between the miles on oil and miles on unit? 6647-4795=1852. Did you do another oil change in-between these two?

MyWifeLetMe · Mar 12, 2024

SCARd4Life said:
Only 1000 hours on the oil and the viscosity was low.

1,146 to be exact. Miles (oil/unit) are listed at the top of the table.

Does the truck idle alot?
I used to go between 5,000-6,000 miles on my diesel and that was usually just under 500 hours

SCARd4Life · Mar 12, 2024

MyWifeLetMe said:
Does the truck idle alot?
I used to go between 5,000-6,000 miles on my diesel and that was usually just under 500 hours

Sorry- meant miles, like is shown on the oil analysis report. Not 1000 hours. Never idles anymore than enough to get out of the shop. Always taken up to normal operating temps on the oil, never short drives. Gets exercised every couple weeks. Otherwise it snuggles up in the shop hooked up to the trickle charger. If only we all had this cushy of a life.

SCARd4Life · Mar 12, 2024

IdahoKTM said:
1000 hours can't be right. At an average of 40 mph, that would be 40,000 miles.

Why is there a difference between the miles on oil and miles on unit? 6647-4795=1852. Did you do another oil change in-between these two?

Had hours on the brain. Was in miles. My bad.

916Ghost · Mar 12, 2024

SCARd4Life said:
Had hours on the brain. Was in miles. My bad.

Seems like a lot of extra cash for a 1000 miles on it. I only put about 4000 miles on mine annually so I think I’m just gonna stick with PUP tbh. I will change it before anything crazy. Just gonna invest in the white srt filter each time as to the stock one.

OnTheReel · Mar 13, 2024

So tonight I came across something interesting and somewhat puzzling. A member had identical samples of used oil tested at both Blackstone and Amsoil. While most tests came back within a reasonable margin of error and natural variation there were two standouts.

Fuel. This part isn’t a puzzle. I have been pounding the table on this for years here with Blackstone. Using flashpoint to guesstimate fuel is junk science and it’s not accurate. For this particular comparison they indicated <.5% (even though the flashpoint was lower than the samples posted by @SCARd4Life).

Amsoil/ Oil Analyzers Inc (and most other ISO labs) measure fuel via gas chromatography, the gold standard. And their conclusion? 2.7%. So to recap. One lab says there’s no fuel, the other finds nearly 3%. On these trucks, at these levels it’s one thing, but you can imagine the chaos that could ensue on a DI motor? You’re one leaky HPFP away from serious problems that may not be caught in time.

More interesting and indeed puzzling is the difference in measured viscosity. Blackstone came up with 11.37. Low. Amsoil? 13.6. Which in fairness seems surprisingly high considering near 3% fuel dilution. So what the hell is going on?

Well, all things considered I’m still more suspicious of the numbers coming out of Blackstone. It’s been proven time and time again that their fuel estimate is crap and there is certainly a trend of viscosity coming back lower than what we would expect.

We can only speculate because Blackstone doesn’t specify an ASTM method for their viscosity test. Are they running a Brookfield (reported in cP) and then adjusting the range by the 100c density? Can’t jump to any conclusions from one comparison but there’s something up when numbers don’t jive.

Lastly, I have to say the pattern of Pennzoil dropping out of grade spans all labs. TestOil, Wix, Amsoil, Polaris, etc. So by questioning Blackstone I am not letting that oil off the hook. But the Schaeffer, maybe. It’s one test. Like I said…run it again, send it to a different lab and let’s see.

916Ghost · Mar 19, 2024

Well I went and ordered Schaeffer‘s like @SCARd4Life ran last 6 months. Got a pretty good deal on 8 quarts so thought I would give it a try. Hopefully I can tell a little difference compared to the PUP.

OnTheReel · Mar 19, 2024

916Ghost said:
Well I went and ordered Schaeffer‘s like @SCARd4Life ran last 6 months. Got a pretty good deal on 8 quarts so thought I would give it a try. Hopefully I can tell a little difference compared to the PUP.

Seems there’s some interest in this product so I’ll give it a shot too. I will have to send it through a better lab to get useful data on it. In addition to determining the actual correct viscosity, the oxidation value would be nice to know. I can use that as a proxy for ester content and thus get a general idea of what it’s made of, and its level of solvency. Red Line oxidation is over 100, Amsoil SS is in the 60s which is still quite good. The Pennzoil is dry as a bone, 13-16 on the tests I have. (Note: This method is not always perfect and does require some background info on the oil’s chemistry. For instance, a few high end oils use ANs which also have great solvency but will not show up in the oxidation value. Only the carbonyl groups in esters get measured.)

Eventually will do this test and compare process with all of the popular options and share all the boring details I collect. I’ve been at this for a few years already on the 6.2 so there’s already a lot to go over. But we’re getting there.

916Ghost · Mar 19, 2024

OnTheReel said:
Seems there’s some interest in this product so I’ll give it a shot too. I will have to send it through a better lab to get useful data on it. In addition to determining the actual correct viscosity, the oxidation value would be nice to know. I can use that as a proxy for ester content and thus get a general idea of what it’s made of, and its level of solvency. Red Line oxidation is over 100, Amsoil SS is in the 60s which is still quite good. The Pennzoil is dry as a bone, 13-16 on the tests I have. (Note: This method is not always perfect and does require some background info on the oil’s chemistry. For instance, a few high end oils use ANs which also have great solvency but will not show up in the oxidation value. Only the carbonyl groups in esters get measured.)

Eventually will do this test and compare process with all of the popular options and share all the boring details I collect. I’ve been at this for a few years already on the 6.2 so there’s already a lot to go over. But we’re getting there.

So the guy I found that’s sending me mine is sending the tech data sheet on the oil also. So I’m not all that into all the tech stuff on oil as to why I have asked the questions I have. But once it shows up I will DM it to you if you would like. I’m pretty sure he is a dealer as he said he was gonna throw in some truck stickers and other stuff as well.

OnTheReel · Mar 19, 2024

916Ghost said:
So the guy I found that’s sending me mine is sending the tech data sheet on the oil also. So I’m not all that into all the tech stuff on oil as to why I have asked the questions I have. But once it shows up I will DM it to you if you would like. I’m pretty sure he is a dealer as he said he was gonna throw in some truck stickers and other stuff as well.

I don’t know if it will give us any more than what’s on their site but definitely send it and I’ll take a look. Most of these companies keep their cards pretty close to their chest so it’s tricky.

SCARd4Life · Mar 20, 2024

OnTheReel said:
Seems there’s some interest in this product so I’ll give it a shot too. I will have to send it through a better lab to get useful data on it. In addition to determining the actual correct viscosity, the oxidation value would be nice to know. I can use that as a proxy for ester content and thus get a general idea of what it’s made of, and its level of solvency. Red Line oxidation is over 100, Amsoil SS is in the 60s which is still quite good. The Pennzoil is dry as a bone, 13-16 on the tests I have. (Note: This method is not always perfect and does require some background info on the oil’s chemistry. For instance, a few high end oils use ANs which also have great solvency but will not show up in the oxidation value. Only the carbonyl groups in esters get measured.)

Eventually will do this test and compare process with all of the popular options and share all the boring details I collect. I’ve been at this for a few years already on the 6.2 so there’s already a lot to go over. But we’re getting there.

Just ordered a case from here. Quick shipping (free): https://midwestaftermarket.com/products/schaeffers-9040-012