Dusterhoff 937 flex fuel vs. local shops

Current setup on 93
Toyo MT 37x13.50R18
Dusterhoff 937 - 2.95 pulley 14PSI
FI 1” blower spacers W/Thermal blanket
FIC 1000cc injectors
Brisk ER14S spark plugs
Gates OEM green length belt
STG rotor cup bushings
SDG S/C oil kit
J&L catch can
Crank pin kit
CPS intake
Borla Atak
 

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Got a great answer from Dusterhoff.
And willing to adjust for my needs.

Hoping HPT can get the flex issue resolved now.
 

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Got a great answer from Dusterhoff.
And willing to adjust for my needs.

Hoping HPT can get the flex issue resolved now.
Nice to see Curt talking exactly about what I have preached on here for years regarding length of pulls in the TRX (versus let’s say a challenger) and how that impacts tuning specifically for this vehicle regardless of drivetrain similarities with others. Also speaks to again the differences in tuning a drag car vs street car. You’re at 14 PSI and with you being in a hot climate you’re already experiencing the need to pull timing. @Jholland45

Sorry to hear about the flex issue in HPT. Must be a recent thing since no issues here with my flex setup as far as I can tell. Hope HPT gets that resolved quickly for you.
 
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Nice to see Curt talking exactly about what I have preached on here for years regarding length of pulls in the TRX (versus let’s say a challenger) and how that impacts tuning specifically for this vehicle regardless of drivetrain similarities with others. Also speaks to again the differences in tuning a drag car vs street car. You’re at 14 PSI and with you being in a hot climate you’re already experiencing the need to pull timing. @Jholland45

Sorry to hear about the flex issue in HPT. Must be a recent thing since no issues here with my flex setup as far as I can tell. Hope HPT gets that resolved quickly for you.
Dragging a 6000lb brick to speed is no easy task and I could imagine how high cylinder pressures can get under high load.

Stoked to run E85. First time running it in a S/C platform instead of turbo, so I'm hoping I have reasonable expectations without swapping to a smaller pulley yet.
 
Dragging a 6000lb brick to speed is no easy task and I could imagine how high cylinder pressures can get under high load.

Stoked to run E85. First time running it in a S/C platform instead of turbo, so I'm hoping I have reasonable expectations without swapping to a smaller pulley yet.
E85 really wakes the truck up thanks to the torque gain down low.
 
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That's what I'm hoping. Between trying to kick the rear end out to defeat understeer offroad and all the slow cars that end up beating this truck on road, I need all the help I can get to push these heavy tires.
Pulley swaps seems simple so I'll probably play that game down the road if this doesn't quite do it with the 2.95 on E85.
 
At least I know the responsiveness is typical now, thank you guys!

Got word from the tuner to do the first multi gear pull and after reviewing the log he said the tune "looks good".
Now we are waiting on HPTuners to fix the flex fuel patch to switch to E85.

I am still on the initial 93 base tune that has had zero adjustments.

Truck feels like it has less low end power that stock but hoping some timing can be added to bring the power back and I would hope gain low end power over stock.
Also having a rough possibly lean hot start that takes about 10 seconds to smooth out.

Have you guys had similar results?

Only thing outside of their 937 kit that I am running is the FI 1" blower spacer.
This was surprising to me as well with Dusterhoff on my 93 octane tune. They never made any adjustments to the first off the shelf tune they sent me prior to any logging. Any tuners I've used for previous vehicles we did several iterations back and forth of logging/tune updates to really dial it in. Didn't quite feel like I got the "custom" tuning that I paid for.

I saw you mention that you are working with them on a flex E85 tune, and that you have 1000cc injectors. Did they say the 1000cc will work fine for the flex tune? I am looking to go 2.85" upper and potentially flex tune and was under the assumption 1300cc was required for E85. The 1300s are almost twice the cost of the 1050s I've looked at.
 
This was surprising to me as well with Dusterhoff on my 93 octane tune. They never made any adjustments to the first off the shelf tune they sent me prior to any logging. Any tuners I've used for previous vehicles we did several iterations back and forth of logging/tune updates to really dial it in. Didn't quite feel like I got the "custom" tuning that I paid for.

I saw you mention that you are working with them on a flex E85 tune, and that you have 1000cc injectors. Did they say the 1000cc will work fine for the flex tune? I am looking to go 2.85" upper and potentially flex tune and was under the assumption 1300cc was required for E85. The 1300s are almost twice the cost of the 1050s I've looked at.
I agree, the “custom” tuning is not impressive so far, weeks into the tuning process and not 1 update to the map.

This is their DT937 flex kit that came with the 1000cc injectors. The 1000’s are big enough for the kit but probably not big enough if you want a smaller pulley and dedicated E85 tune.
I would have upgraded to the 1300’s given the option.
 
This was surprising to me as well with Dusterhoff on my 93 octane tune. They never made any adjustments to the first off the shelf tune they sent me prior to any logging. Any tuners I've used for previous vehicles we did several iterations back and forth of logging/tune updates to really dial it in. Didn't quite feel like I got the "custom" tuning that I paid for.

I saw you mention that you are working with them on a flex E85 tune, and that you have 1000cc injectors. Did they say the 1000cc will work fine for the flex tune? I am looking to go 2.85" upper and potentially flex tune and was under the assumption 1300cc was required for E85. The 1300s are almost twice the cost of the 1050s I've looked at.
1000cc injectors are fine for flex tuning with the 2.85 upper. If you want a dedicated e85 pulley combo then upgrade to 1200s or 1300s.

I’m not sure that you or @RS1 understand how the tuning process works for remote tuning on a “standard” package. Which they should have explained to you what to expect. Since Dusterhoff has done thousands of hellcat vehicles at this point their tunes are pretty much dialed in unless you ask them for a very aggressive tune (which I would only ever recommend for a track only car where the customer is willing to break things). Otherwise, the tune adjustments for power from car to car with the same parts are going to be the same or very very close. However, if you put together a package that is slightly different than one of their standard ones you can expect more runs to dial things in. Additionally, most tuning adjustments for a tuner who knows a platform are going to come from driveability related items. Those are ones the tuners can’t see and you as the driver have to communicate to them. For example, checking my TDN database, I have been through 21 tune revisions on my two tunes. Some because my setup was unique and some because I communicated things I wanted to change (example, the 2-3 shift for me was falling on its face a bit and we had to work on the torque management settings). In other words, if there is something in the tune you want changed then you need to tell them.
 
1000cc injectors are fine for flex tuning with the 2.85 upper. If you want a dedicated e85 pulley combo then upgrade to 1200s or 1300s.

I’m not sure that you or @RS1 understand how the tuning process works for remote tuning on a “standard” package. Which they should have explained to you what to expect. Since Dusterhoff has done thousands of hellcat vehicles at this point their tunes are pretty much dialed in unless you ask them for a very aggressive tune (which I would only ever recommend for a track only car where the customer is willing to break things). Otherwise, the tune adjustments for power from car to car with the same parts are going to be the same or very very close. However, if you put together a package that is slightly different than one of their standard ones you can expect more runs to dial things in. Additionally, most tuning adjustments for a tuner who knows a platform are going to come from driveability related items. Those are ones the tuners can’t see and you as the driver have to communicate to them. For example, checking my TDN database, I have been through 21 tune revisions on my two tunes. Some because my setup was unique and some because I communicated things I wanted to change (example, the 2-3 shift for me was falling on its face a bit and we had to work on the torque management settings). In other words, if there is something in the tune you want changed then you need to tell them.
Thanks for the info on injector size.

I understand how remote tuning works. This is the the 6th vehicle I've done remote tuning on using 4 different tuners, each time using one of the main well known tuners for that platform with thousands of tunes under their belt. Every one has been "standard" tuning for whatever simple bolt-ons I added, just like this. This was just a surprise to me as in every other experience we went through several iterations after the initial tune which was estimated based on the list of modifications I sent. Typically a minimum of 2 updates, one after my initial cruising log and another after WOT logs. Each updated tune always gave a noticeable seat of the pants improvement.

My truck runs great and I'll continue with Dusterhoff when I change injectors and upper pulley, it was just a different experience than I've had with any other tuners as far as actually customizing a tune to my truck and environment.
 
Thanks for the info on injector size.

I understand how remote tuning works. This is the the 6th vehicle I've done remote tuning on using 4 different tuners, each time using one of the main well known tuners for that platform with thousands of tunes under their belt. Every one has been "standard" tuning for whatever simple bolt-ons I added, just like this. This was just a surprise to me as in every other experience we went through several iterations after the initial tune which was estimated based on the list of modifications I sent. Typically a minimum of 2 updates, one after my initial cruising log and another after WOT logs. Each updated tune always gave a noticeable seat of the pants improvement.

My truck runs great and I'll continue with Dusterhoff when I change injectors and upper pulley, it was just a different experience than I've had with any other tuners as far as actually customizing a tune to my truck and environment.
Which other 4 remote tuners did you buy their standard package from and why did they feel the need to make the first tune so conservative if it was their defined package?

The 93 octane package for DT is such a super simple and mild setup. Fuel trims are easily set knowing the injector parameters going in. You’re close to sea level so altitude does not come into play. Torque management is straightforward given the mods and shouldn’t vary at all vehicle to vehicle. The only variable that a tuner who is less knowledgeable might need to adjust is timing. Ie. Start with something a little more conservative and ramp up. Which in a 7000lb truck a degree or two of timing is not something you will feel. If you tuned in hot weather in TX then I would also guess that you’re more likely to get a “box type” timing map since there isn’t room to ramp up. More likely to get the “normal” package and let STKR handle any adjustments.

I guess my question is why would you expect a tuner who designed the parts package going in to need to create a custom tune from vehicle to vehicle? What would you expect to differ? The only time you would expect to see tune changes from vehicle to vehicle with the same parts is when you are trying to be aggressive in the tuning IMO. A conservative tune which is what is usually offered unless something different is requested is not going to require a bunch of pulls with minor adjustments back and forth to figure out if you can get one more degree of timing before knock.
 
Which other 4 remote tuners did you buy their standard package from and why did they feel the need to make the first tune so conservative if it was their defined package?

The 93 octane package for DT is such a super simple and mild setup. Fuel trims are easily set knowing the injector parameters going in. You’re close to sea level so altitude does not come into play. Torque management is straightforward given the mods and shouldn’t vary at all vehicle to vehicle. The only variable that a tuner who is less knowledgeable might need to adjust is timing. Ie. Start with something a little more conservative and ramp up. Which in a 7000lb truck a degree or two of timing is not something you will feel. If you tuned in hot weather in TX then I would also guess that you’re more likely to get a “box type” timing map since there isn’t room to ramp up. More likely to get the “normal” package and let STKR handle any adjustments.

I guess my question is why would you expect a tuner who designed the parts package going in to need to create a custom tune from vehicle to vehicle? What would you expect to differ? The only time you would expect to see tune changes from vehicle to vehicle with the same parts is when you are trying to be aggressive in the tuning IMO. A conservative tune which is what is usually offered unless something different is requested is not going to require a bunch of pulls with minor adjustments back and forth to figure out if you can get one more degree of timing before knock.
I've had a 5.3L by Blackbear, two 6.2L Chevys done by Lewis Eaton (Diablew), a 6.4L Grand Cherokee by Johan, and a 5.7L Ram done by Jay Greene. I'm not sure why they felt the need to do the process that way. I just purchased the basic tuning package and followed their instructions of data logging and then uploading each tune provided. I essentially just had air intake and catback exhaust on all of those.

It could be that DT keeps it more mild as you explained and the others started with a mild tune and took it a bit more aggressive after logging. To answer why I would expect the process to the be that way is simply because that has been the process I've gone through every other time. I haven't said that it's right or wrong, just that it differed from what I've seen before.

I appreciate the insight into how certain parameters are or aren't affected by environmental factors though, I need to read up more on that side of things.

I trust that he's one of the best in the business and when I pull the trigger on injectors and upper pulley for a flex fuel tune I'll make sure and work with them to get it dialed in for what I'm after.
 
I've had a 5.3L by Blackbear, two 6.2L Chevys done by Lewis Eaton (Diablew), a 6.4L Grand Cherokee by Johan, and a 5.7L Ram done by Jay Greene. I'm not sure why they felt the need to do the process that way. I just purchased the basic tuning package and followed their instructions of data logging and then uploading each tune provided. I essentially just had air intake and catback exhaust on all of those.

It could be that DT keeps it more mild as you explained and the others started with a mild tune and took it a bit more aggressive after logging. To answer why I would expect the process to the be that way is simply because that has been the process I've gone through every other time. I haven't said that it's right or wrong, just that it differed from what I've seen before.

I appreciate the insight into how certain parameters are or aren't affected by environmental factors though, I need to read up more on that side of things.

I trust that he's one of the best in the business and when I pull the trigger on injectors and upper pulley for a flex fuel tune I'll make sure and work with them to get it dialed in for what I'm after.
Were those N/a or supercharged 6.2 chevys? If those were all n/a motors then there will be differences…especially if they were running MAF instead of MAP sensors.

Not trying to attack you at all for noticing the difference. I should have added more clarity in that first post when I said that “they should have explained to you what to expect”, I mean DT should have detailed their process to you. If they didn’t, that’s on them.

But trust me, if things need to be tweaked then DT will adjust them. Like I said, 21 tune revisions for me.
 
Were those N/a or supercharged 6.2 chevys? If those were all n/a motors then there will be differences…especially if they were running MAF instead of MAP sensors.

Not trying to attack you at all for noticing the difference. I should have added more clarity in that first post when I said that “they should have explained to you what to expect”, I mean DT should have detailed their process to you. If they didn’t, that’s on them.

But trust me, if things need to be tweaked then DT will adjust them. Like I said, 21 tune revisions for me.
No problem at all! They were were all N/A, and I also assume since each vehicle I buy is newer and newer the ECU is also capable of making a lot more adjustments on its own than my older rigs.

This is my first forced induction vehicle so it's been fun being able to mess with pulley sizes as an additional bolt on to play with.
 
Hey Guys,

I don’t frequent the forums often, as my primary focus is on tuning vehicles and managing the day-to-day operations of the business. However, I do make time to occasionally check in on discussions to get a sense of how our work is being received and to stay informed on customer feedback. As the business bears my name, maintaining a strong and positive brand reputation is something I take very seriously.

Providing exceptional customer service and conducting our operations with the highest ethical standards are top priorities for me. I'm pleased to see many satisfied customers here, which is something we take pride in. I’ll take the opportunity to address a few specific points directly.



Currently in the tuning process with DTRacing on the 937 Flex kit.
Has anyone else had disappointing comms with their tuners? 0-1 response per day.
Still on the initial base tune over a week later.

The sales team has been great with knowledge and responsiveness.

Unfortunately, with remote tuning, it is difficult for us to manage the workload as we may sell it and have the customer come weeks or months later for tuning. We have fluctuations from where we are several days out on replies to where I can get several out in a day. To be transparent, this is a customer concern I have been focused on for years without any real solution. I want every customer to feel like they are getting the best possible product and service from my business. We tried scheduling all tuning for a period of time so that we could control work load but we had a majority of our appointments end up no-show's which cost us production, money etc. When we attempted to enforce a no-show fee that didn't go over well either. What we settled on is to work tuning in the queue in order received and our standard is to try and maintain at most 1 business day on all cases and I keep staff to be able to maintain that. If someone needs a faster turn around, we do offer appointments. This gives us the best of both worlds. I apologize for the prolonged turn around but if need be we can always schedule an appointment.

Tuning is through email.
Their Sales team told me scheduling tune dates is for dyno or for customers with limited availability.
I drive the truck every day and can log anytime of the day to send them what's needed.

Maybe I should just get on their tuning schedule but was under the impression the way they moved forward was the quickest way to get things handled.

Nothing bad to say about the DTRacing team, just expected better comms during tuning.

I apologize for the miscommunication here. You should have received a calendar appointment. I will use this as a training opportunity with front-end staff. Also, just want to say thanks for your patience with the flex issue on hptuners. It is greatly appreciated.

This was surprising to me as well with Dusterhoff on my 93 octane tune. They never made any adjustments to the first off the shelf tune they sent me prior to any logging. Any tuners I've used for previous vehicles we did several iterations back and forth of logging/tune updates to really dial it in. Didn't quite feel like I got the "custom" tuning that I paid for.

I saw you mention that you are working with them on a flex E85 tune, and that you have 1000cc injectors. Did they say the 1000cc will work fine for the flex tune? I am looking to go 2.85" upper and potentially flex tune and was under the assumption 1300cc was required for E85. The 1300s are almost twice the cost of the 1050s I've looked at.

Just want to give a little context and clarity on this. I was one of the first 2 or 3 people in the country to tune a hellcat, the first to have trans tuning on one and we have been tuning these platforms full-time for almost a decade now. Most of our packages, especially the trx ones, we have done hundreds of times. We have them so dialed in now that often, none or only a couple of revisions are needed. I know it may feel less "custom" but the fact that you're tune only took one or maybe no revisions is a good sign. It means that we have done your exact application on your exact year, make, model and cal probably 20 or 30 times. Most of the ones we get 20 or 30 revisions deep on is because it's a calibration that we haven't done before. I hope this helps provide some reassurance but if there is anything else that you need, please don't hesitate to reach out via phone or email.

404-480-4754
[email protected]
 
To be transparent, this is a customer concern I have been focused on for years without any real solution. I want every customer to feel like they are getting the best possible product and service from my business. We tried scheduling all tuning for a period of time so that we could control work load but we had a majority of our appointments end up no-show's which cost us production, money etc. When we attempted to enforce a no-show fee that didn't go over well either.

Good stuff and I can really relate to this part above. It can really hurt a small business when work is scheduled and people don't follow through.
 
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Hey Guys,

I don’t frequent the forums often, as my primary focus is on tuning vehicles and managing the day-to-day operations of the business. However, I do make time to occasionally check in on discussions to get a sense of how our work is being received and to stay informed on customer feedback. As the business bears my name, maintaining a strong and positive brand reputation is something I take very seriously.

Providing exceptional customer service and conducting our operations with the highest ethical standards are top priorities for me. I'm pleased to see many satisfied customers here, which is something we take pride in. I’ll take the opportunity to address a few specific points directly.





Unfortunately, with remote tuning, it is difficult for us to manage the workload as we may sell it and have the customer come weeks or months later for tuning. We have fluctuations from where we are several days out on replies to where I can get several out in a day. To be transparent, this is a customer concern I have been focused on for years without any real solution. I want every customer to feel like they are getting the best possible product and service from my business. We tried scheduling all tuning for a period of time so that we could control work load but we had a majority of our appointments end up no-show's which cost us production, money etc. When we attempted to enforce a no-show fee that didn't go over well either. What we settled on is to work tuning in the queue in order received and our standard is to try and maintain at most 1 business day on all cases and I keep staff to be able to maintain that. If someone needs a faster turn around, we do offer appointments. This gives us the best of both worlds. I apologize for the prolonged turn around but if need be we can always schedule an appointment.



I apologize for the miscommunication here. You should have received a calendar appointment. I will use this as a training opportunity with front-end staff. Also, just want to say thanks for your patience with the flex issue on hptuners. It is greatly appreciated.



Just want to give a little context and clarity on this. I was one of the first 2 or 3 people in the country to tune a hellcat, the first to have trans tuning on one and we have been tuning these platforms full-time for almost a decade now. Most of our packages, especially the trx ones, we have done hundreds of times. We have them so dialed in now that often, none or only a couple of revisions are needed. I know it may feel less "custom" but the fact that you're tune only took one or maybe no revisions is a good sign. It means that we have done your exact application on your exact year, make, model and cal probably 20 or 30 times. Most of the ones we get 20 or 30 revisions deep on is because it's a calibration that we haven't done before. I hope this helps provide some reassurance but if there is anything else that you need, please don't hesitate to reach out via phone or email.

404-480-4754
[email protected]
Appreciate the update and context for my comment!

Several others in the forum also reassured me that the fact my tune didn’t take any revisions is a good thing and a testament to your experience with the platform.

Currently working with you on my flex tune and looking forward to seeing what this baby can do on E85.

Cheers
 
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Awesome to see the owner get out here and clear up some information.
Thank you Sir.

I completely understand any issues with HPT is out of your control.
If the truck turns out as great as the sales team pitched then it’s going to be well worth the couple of months of waiting. I was told I should NOT do ported snout/throttle body by the team so hopefully I don’t end up tearing it back apart for the power I’m expecting. This is when we all wish whipples were more reliable….


Received some great news from the sales team letting me know that the truck as it sits with the initial tune shouldn’t be the end state feel of the truck. Super stoked to hear!
It’s been a long process with minimal felt gains so far, so I’m looking forward to seeing what the truck actually dialed in will do.


________________________________________
“Hey Rhett,

I believe the issue is resolved now per HPT and that we are going to be able to apply the fix and get it sorted out. The feel of the vehicle currently shouldn't be the end state. You're on revision 2 and that's really just still in the sorting out to ensure mechanical function stage. The end results I think will be much more to your satisfaction. I apologize that it's taken so long to get here. Any time we have a patch needed from HPT it draws the process out much longer than we would like and I'm longer than you anticipated as well.

Our tunes are all done specific for each vehicle and not canned/off the shelf options so there is a bit of nuance.

The remaining adjustments/revisions will be coming soon sir!

Thanks in advance for your patience,
Jeff”
________________________________________




For those interested I am on the 937 flex kit with the addition of FI 1” Blower spacers/thermal blanket and CPS intake.
37x13.50R18 Toyo MT


Current draggy data on initial E85 tune that I have been told to do pulls on for datalogs.

1729269403408.jpeg



Will report back with final draggy data once I am told the truck is finished.
 
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