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Marty.Z

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I honestly gave it some thought and wondered if I should just let it go and take the loss but the more I thought about it I realized it was BS.

I ordered custom emblems from another member on here at the recommendation of a few others from Perfomance IQ. The emblem was shipped and showed as delivered but when I checked my parcel locker someone else’s package was inside and mine was not.

Like a good neighbor I went and knocked on their door to give them their package, hoping they had mine or at the very least had the key to open their own parcel locker. Unfortunately their locker didn’t have anything inside. I reached out to Performance IQ via email hoping to amicably resolve the situation.

The response I received didn’t seem right. The business replied that they fulfilled their responsibility by sending the package to the address I provided, anything after that is out of their control and therefore my own responsibility.

I don’t know whether the package was insured or not but is it really that simple? Am I just shit out of luck if the USPS can’t locate it?

I’ve filed a claim with them and PayPal so I am waiting to see how it goes, but correct me if I am wrong aren’t merchants fully responsible until the package reaches the hands of its intended customer?

Granted my order wasn’t very big I was planning on ordering a few other items from them after thanksgiving, but it makes me wonder what would have happened then if I was out a few more hundred instead this lesser amount…
 

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SneekEm

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Anytime I order something and don’t receive it, I try to see what the merchant wants to do, if they push back or claim “not my problem” I call AmEx or file a dispute with PayPal. If they say the package was insured then I also file a claim with the shipping company. No reason you paid for something and legitimately don’t receive it.

I’m sure others will have ways they handle it but that’s what I do. USPS always marks my packages “delivered” before actually coming to my shop to realize we are closed (we tend to close early from time to time when we are done) and can’t deliver the package. my tracking will show delivered but nothing was dropped off. So they have to re-deliver the next day we are open and they can’t change the “delivered” status. This happens more than you’d think. Just happened to me a couple weeks ago.

Oh, for what it’s worth, my PerformanceIQ parts arrived safe and sound. Just wanted to say he’s legit, I’m certain something funny happened with the package or a neighbor took it.
 

rugbym8t

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Well if they shipped them, then it's up to if it was insured with the shipper or not. If it wasn't then yes you are SOL, unless they told you it was going to be insured. This is why I only use my credit card for purchases, and normally Amex.

It's hard for the small business because the delivery services mess up a ton. The smart ones insist on insurance for this reason but it still takes weeks or months to resolve a claim. Be nice to the vendor, they don't control this at all. Instead get furious at your courier. But if no insurance, then you are out.

If you used your credit card with PayPal, call your CC first. Be honest and say hey they shipped but you didnt receive due to the carrier. And they may refund you, while also not taking the funds back from the small company. PayPal actually may side with the shipper if they kept good records on making and shipping the product.
 

ParadigmDawg

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It is total BS. I don't know the law around shipping and delivery but I have never seen a reputable company that just ignored a shipping issue. Call them and ask for a manager. If it isn't resolved then, I would feel free to give your honest opinion to anyone who will listen.
 

BadMonk

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Well if they shipped them, then it's up to if it was insured with the shipper or not. If it wasn't then yes you are SOL, unless they told you it was going to be insured. This is why I only use my credit card for purchases, and normally Amex.

It's hard for the small business because the delivery services mess up a ton. The smart ones insist on insurance for this reason but it still takes weeks or months to resolve a claim. Be nice to the vendor, they don't control this at all. Instead get furious at your courier. But if no insurance, then you are out.

If you used your credit card with PayPal, call your CC first. Be honest and say hey they shipped but you didnt receive due to the carrier. And they may refund you, while also not taking the funds back from the small company. PayPal actually may side with the shipper if they kept good records on making and shipping the product.
Wrong. Delivery is the responsibility of the shipper. The carrier is responsible to them.
 

rugbym8t

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Wrong. Delivery is the responsibility of the shipper. The carrier is responsible to them.

Read the terms and conditions of service, it may not be the case. I know it's not the case in my businesses that mail/ ship products. That said we always insure the packages and handle the claims seamlessly for our customers. Where the issues are verfified. So we don't invoke the terms, but they are there to protect us. You do know there are dishonest people who abuse situations like this....

Everyone is quick to go hard at vendors and businesses, until you actually own one :). The mechanics of how this works isn't how most assume.

Now with all that said, they should have insured the package, file the package as missing, and just ship the guy another order. But let's hope that their was enough margin for them to even break even doing that, because USPS may just double down and say delivered, and then the claim is denied.
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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Read the terms and conditions of service, it may not be the case. I know it's not the case in my businesses that mail/ ship products. That said we always insure the packages and handle the claims seamlessly for our customers. Where the issues are verfified. So we don't invoke the terms, but they are there to protect us. You do know there are dishonest people who abuse situations like this....

Everyone is quick to go hard at vendors and businesses, until you actually own one :). The mechanics of how this works isn't how most assume.

Now with all that said, they should have insured the package, file the package as missing, and just ship the guy another order. But let's hope that their was enough margin for them to even break even doing that, because USPS may just double down and say delivered, and then the claim is denied.
I definitely do my best to shop with local or small businesses as I know their margins are usually a lot smaller when compared to bigger companies.

As you mentioned most would just do right by the customer and send out a replacement. Not quite sure why they wouldn’t in this situation.

Most likely I’ll end up having to take the loss but just wanted to inform other members of my situation.

Like I mentioned, the owner or the business is a member of the forum as well and welcome to chime into the conversation with their side of the story…
 

timinnd

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Well if they shipped them, then it's up to if it was insured with the shipper or not. If it wasn't then yes you are SOL, unless they told you it was going to be insured. This is why I only use my credit card for purchases, and normally Amex.

It's hard for the small business because the delivery services mess up a ton. The smart ones insist on insurance for this reason but it still takes weeks or months to resolve a claim. Be nice to the vendor, they don't control this at all. Instead get furious at your courier. But if no insurance, then you are out.

If you used your credit card with PayPal, call your CC first. Be honest and say hey they shipped but you didnt receive due to the carrier. And they may refund you, while also not taking the funds back from the small company. PayPal actually may side with the shipper if they kept good records on making and shipping the product.

I don't think this is correct.

The proof is on the shoulders of the shipper.

How did you pay for it? Credit Card I hope? Dispute it. You'll easily win.
I was in the shipping business for years. It's the shipper.


 
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timinnd

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Read the terms and conditions of service, it may not be the case.

I don't think you can't just put in terms of service "Once we ship it it's out of our hands". It's the shippers responsibility.

An interesting story on this:
I sold a lot (about $50 million) of product to convenience stores and distributors from 1995 to about 2019. I was told by USPS that the proof was on me. The unique thing about my product was I could turn them off (prepaid phone cards) if the store said "We didn't get them"--which I had stores lie about. Funny story, I had a store (more than one actually), say "We didn't get them". I said "No worries, I'll ship more out"

I sent an exact repeat of the order out, and TURNED OFF the order they said they didn't get. About 4-5 days later....the manager called me and said "We're getting people bringing cards the cards back saying they don't work."
I said "do you have one they brought back?" He did. He had a few. I asked for the sequence#s on the back. He gave them to me, I looked at his order he "didn't get" -- I said "Hmm. Remember the order you said you didn't get? All of the cards you got back are from that order. So how did you not get them?" They ended up having to pay for both orders. Oh- and this store never bought from me again. It was somehow my fault they lied and got caught.

Another interesting story. A store got broke into. The manager at this place called and asked to turn the cards off, get refund, send more. I said "I can do that, but....I think we should let the cards get used, get the info from them and see if we can find the criminals" No subpoena needed as the store owner owned the cards, and the rights to the info on them.

I monitored the cards. Soon they started being used. Sheriff took the phone numbers used to call from and call to, and did some detective work, ended up catching them.

I had the DEA call me....looking for call records....as they caught some drug sellers with some of my cards. They actually had to get a subpoena, as the cards were purchased at a store and owned by the drug sellers.

It was a unique product. I could send thousands (stores) or tens of thousands (distributors) of dollars of product out and not have to insure a penny of it.

If it were a tangible item, I'd had to insure it or ME take the risk. That's what it was then. I doubt the laws on that have changed much, but I could be wrong.
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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Nope. This is 100% incorrect.

The proof is on the shoulders of the shipper.

How did you pay for it? Credit Card I hope? Dispute it. You'll easily win.
I was in the shipping business for years. It's the shipper.


I purchased through PayPal linked to my credit card. I try to use that method whenever it is available for any purchases.

Seeing as everything transpired over the weekend I'm going to give it a few days to see what response I receive from the post office as I believe the seller will not do anything further for me.

I have already disputed it with PayPal but if no resolution is found I will dispute it with my CC company and leave it at that. It's just mind-boggling that the seller is willing to risk losing a customer over such a minimal amount. I was planning on purchasing more items but wanted to see the quality in person beforehand. I guess everything happens for a reason...
 

RedEyeTRX

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You paid the seller for the product + shipping (either direct or indirect).
The SELLER contracted with the shipping company (UPS/USPS/FedEx) to deliver the product to you.
You did not select or contract with the shipping company.
It is the SELLERS responsibility to contact THEIR shipping company and make the claim, not you.

You have no contract with the shipping company. Your contract is with the seller and right now, they have not fulfilled their end of the contract. Dispute the charge.

I went through this exact BS on some Xpel film and both times the SELLER had to file the claims and the SELLER had to make it right with me. Cheers!
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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Well... PayPal was no help. Off to talk to my Credit Card company it is.

Terrible all around to be honest. Hopefully, this can help other forum members make a decision in the future if they are thinking of placing any orders with Performance IQ.

Annotation 2022-11-21 082920.png
 

rugbym8t

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I think everyone is confusing two things. Yes the seller has the job/ duty of filing the claim for the package, to report it not delivered. Assuming it was insured or just to get a trace on the package.

This package is showing as delivered. So that’s not going to go far.

But the seller can absolutely enter an agreement with the buyer that limits their liability for the shipper’s performance. And as long as that agreement requires positive confirmation from the buyer in some way (check a box, sign their name etc). It is binding.

We have dealt with a few cases fraud in our businesses. We have fought and won all the chargebacks (including with American Express) using this very method on orders that “never arrived”. Once showing proof from the shipping service of delivery, and our agreed upon terms and conditions.

That sucks for the OP and the easier way is to just go through the credit card company. And of course I think the vendor should step in and help and work with them. But we don’t know how much they stand to lose on this. But this sucks for all.
 

rugbym8t

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PayPal was no help

Yeah that’s going to be the rough thing in here for this one because the package is tracked and shows delivered. Your credit card company may be more helpful.

How much was the total of the order? Just curious why the vendor isn’t more helpful
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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Yeah that’s going to be the rough thing in here for this one because the package is racked and shows delivered. Your credit card company may be more helpful.

How much was the total of the order? Just curious why the vendor isn’t more helpful
Honestly only $130 for two custom TRX door badges to replace the RAM badges.

I wanted to order a few more products they offer for our trucks but was unsure of the quality.
 

BadMonk

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USPS is notorious for lying about delivery. They were marking Amazon packages delivered and then the packages were showing up days later.

I wouldn't eat $130 on principle. The vendor is insane if they think not making it right is the better solution and taking the loss of future sales
 

OnTheReel

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Just had this happen with an order from Summit Racing. It was around $100 value so not a big deal but I still needed the parts. I called and they sent another package out no questions asked. This is how it should be and how I handle things in my own business. USPS is terrible to deal with when something goes to the wrong place, and we often just have to eat it. But at the end of the day it’s an expected part of running a business. The good thing is that it doesn’t happen all that often. Maybe a couple times a year to us.

For what it’s worth, the original package from Summit showed up like 4 days later and I returned it. Sometimes it takes awhile for the packages to make it home. Sometimes they never do.
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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Just had this happen with an order from Summit Racing. It was around $100 value so not a big deal but I still needed the parts. I called and they sent another package out no questions asked. This is how it should be and how I handle things in my own business. USPS is terrible to deal with when something goes to the wrong place, and we often just have to eat it. But at the end of the day it’s an expected part of running a business. The good thing is that it doesn’t happen all that often. Maybe a couple times a year to us.

For what it’s worth, the original package from Summit showed up like 4 days later and I returned it. Sometimes it takes awhile for the packages to make it home. Sometimes they never do.
That is the exact reason I don't do business with the USPS and I'm hesitant to purchase items from businesses that do unless they require a signature as I have never had issues with USPS not delivering a package that required my signature.

I don't own a business but do ship out items I sell from time to time and have always used UPS. I too would refund or replace any missing items, especially those of low value.

I mentioned to the seller that if a replacement was sent and I received the original package for some reason I would be more than happy to return it. That didn't get me very far though.
 
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Marty.Z

Marty.Z

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I buy a ton of parts for equipment ( 10-20 packages a week)
I will not buy anything that ships USPS, I will pay $50 more just to have FedX or UPS deliver it.
Honestly, the USPS just needs to be abolished. I am looking forward to the day their services go private permanently.
 

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