740rwhp 93 octane TRX write up

Scubajoe · Nov 17, 2023

All,

I wanted to provide a comprehensive overview of my current build. I have a 2023 Lunar edition with 4k miles. I did the typical "warranty safe" mods such as FAS lower pulley, corsa exhaust, SB intake. I was happy with those mods, and my previous truck with the same mods dyno'd 627rwhp. My aux coolant pump went out on my new truck, and i attributed that to the texas summer heat. I decided to take a chance and purchase a chiller kit. I went with what i believe to be the VERY BEST kit on the market, the FI chiller stage 2 kit. My understanding with these motors is that they run hot, and the IAT sensor is in the absolute worst place possible. We lose A LOT of power to heat, especially in the warmer climates. My original intention was to leave the truck untuned, but i eventually changed my mind, ill explain why below.

After installing the chiller, i was getting cooler IC coolant, about 10-15 degrees below ambient. On the highway i was over ambient, about where the factory cooling would be. In FI's instructions they CLEARLY state to turn up the aux pump to 100% and alter the fan speeds to extract the full benefits from the chiller. I waited about a week, was generally satisfied but knew there was more on the table. I reached out to Shawn Liger with Hammer built performance and asked him to set me up with a stage 1 tune, most importantly because i needed the AUX pump turned up and the fan speeds changed to the prescribed table by FI.

After installing the tune, the chiller was working much better than no tune, which makes sense because the stock aux pump setting in auto is 36%, where after the tune its 100%. More water moving = less heat.

Fast forward to wednesday, i had the opportunity to put the truck on JMS Racing Mainline hub dyno. I was BLOWN away with the results. I had the chiller in race mode, and on a 72 degree day, my IC coolant was 26 degrees. We did a pull, and i managed 739.6rwhp in 5th gear.

I did not touch my blower, my pulley, my injectors. I didnt port anything, didnt ask for any special tunes, just something safe that anyone could obtain. To my knowledge there is 0 comparable data from anyone else. I've attached photos. I understand this isnt AWD as we dropped the front drive shaft, but the numbers are incredible regardless.

my truck stock dynod 562rwhp.

DanZman · Nov 17, 2023

You’re saying that you put down 740rwhp with just a chiller and a conservative tune?

That’s sounds pretty amazing.

Scubajoe · Nov 17, 2023

Exactly right, with the lower pulley, intake, exhaust.

DanZman said:
You’re saying that you put down 740rwhp with just a chiller and a conservative tune?

That’s sounds pretty amazing

blaster9 · Nov 18, 2023

Scubajoe said:
Exactly right, with the lower pulley, intake, exhaust.

Lower pulley meaning the slip-on Predator?!?!

This almost seems like crank hp numbers lol. U sure they’re not measuring crank/brake hp somehow?!?!

blaster9 · Nov 18, 2023

Gotta loop the village brain in on this one for his insight @AZDinoPwr

Scubajoe · Nov 18, 2023

blaster9 said:
Lower pulley meaning the slip-on Predator?!?!

This almost seems like crank hp numbers lol. U sure they’re not measuring crank/brake hp somehow?!?!

I’m more than sure. Check them out, they build some crazy cars.

Scubajoe · Nov 18, 2023

blaster9 said:
Gotta loop the village brain in on this one for his insight @AZDinoPwr

He already told me I graduated from Hogwarts. I guess it takes a magician to think outside the box to make power.

AZDinoPwr · Nov 18, 2023

Scubajoe said:
He already told me I graduated from Hogwarts. I guess it takes a magician to think outside the box to make power.

I have the FI chiller sitting in my garage. It’s my third one I bought from them. I’m very familiar with the setup. I’m happy that you like your results but no, your truck did not make 740whp. This is the third hub dyno result we have seen with insane hp numbers that defy reality and not a single time slip that aligns with them.

The best actual whp gains I have seen from a chiller are about 40 whp which is what Kirk advertises. I’m sure if 180whp gains were actually possible then the company making the product would market that.

Let’s do a simple math experiment. HP is directly proportional to fuel consumed. By cooling the charge all you are doing is making a more dense intake charge that must be accompanied by the same delta in additional fuel to make any HP gain. Stock actual whp is 560-570 awhp. If you actually made 740awhp then that would be a ~30% increase in fuel. The stock injectors are 100% duty cycle in ideal conditions at 700-720awhp (720-740rwhp on the hellcat drivetrain). So unless you are also injecting additional fuel into the cylinders via magic then your numbers are impossible. Most tuners would also never exceed 90% duty cycle since that is asking for trouble.

Yes, if you believe the numbers then you graduated from Hogwarts.

AZDinoPwr · Nov 18, 2023

blaster9 said:
Gotta loop the village brain in on this one for his insight @AZDinoPwr

See reply. Just another bogus hub dyno result. 3 for 3 now on the forum. Or perhaps they just tweaked the environmental parameters.

Scubajoe · Nov 18, 2023

AZDinoPwr said:
I have the FI chiller sitting in my garage. It’s my third one I bought from them. I’m very familiar with the setup. I’m happy that you like your results but no, your truck did not make 740whp. This is the third hub dyno result we have seen with insane hp numbers that defy reality and not a single time slip that aligns with them.

The best actual whp gains I have seen from a chiller are about 40 whp which is what Kirk advertises. I’m sure if 180whp gains were actually possible then the company making the product would market that.

Let’s do a simple math experiment. HP is directly proportional to fuel consumed. By cooling the charge all you are doing is making a more dense intake charge that must be accompanied by the same delta in additional fuel to make any HP gain. Stock actual whp is 560-570 awhp. If you actually made 740awhp then that would be a ~30% increase in fuel. The stock injectors are 100% duty cycle in ideal conditions at 700-720awhp (720-740rwhp on the hellcat drivetrain). So unless you are also injecting additional fuel into the cylinders via magic then your numbers are impossible. Most tuners would also never exceed 90% duty cycle since that is asking for trouble.

Yes, if you believe the numbers then you graduated from Hogwarts.

Ah, so when I made 627 with same mods (no tune, no chiller), it’s impossible that I could have gained 40whp with a tune, and 40-60whp with chiller?

Got it. You’re just angry you can’t make the same numbers, you sit and act expert instead of just trying it. Create the same build, go test it. Cry after.

AZDinoPwr · Nov 18, 2023

just as a side note it’s pretty common knowledge on the hellcat platform that even the demon injectors at 700cc (versus hellcat 600cc) are not big enough to comfortably support a 2.85 upper only pulley combo. That’s why tuners recommend the 1000cc injectors at that level. You are right up against the 90% duty cycle. That pulley combo makes 100-130hp more than stock. So making almost double the horsepower gain on stock injectors is impossible.

Demon Injectors in Hellcat

A few weeks ago on the Facebook group there was a lot of discussion on if Demon injectors are enough. There were a few pretty well known tuners strongly saying not to do it and a lot of people saying to do it. I choose to go with Demon Injectors for the price point and knowing sooner or later...

www.durangosrt.org

Scubajoe · Nov 18, 2023

AZDinoPwr said:
just as a side note it’s pretty common knowledge on the hellcat platform that even the demon injectors at 700cc (versus hellcat 600cc) are not big enough to comfortably support a 2.85 upper only pulley combo. That’s why tuners recommend the 1000cc injectors at that level. You are right up against the 90% duty cycle. That pulley combo makes 100-130hp more than stock. So making almost double the horsepower gain on stock injectors is impossible.

Demon Injectors in Hellcat

A few weeks ago on the Facebook group there was a lot of discussion on if Demon injectors are enough. There were a few pretty well known tuners strongly saying not to do it and a lot of people saying to do it. I choose to go with Demon Injectors for the price point and knowing sooner or later...

www.durangosrt.org

It’s not impossible, I’ve proven it. Prove me wrong. Set up a truck same way, similar tune, and dyno it. No one has ever done it. Until someone else has done it, and doesn’t have similar results, it’s all white noise.

AZDinoPwr · Nov 18, 2023

Scubajoe said:
Ah, so when I made 627 with same mods (no tune, no chiller), it’s impossible that I could have gained 40whp with a tune, and 40-60whp with chiller?

Got it. You’re just angry you can’t make the same numbers, you sit and act expert instead of just trying it. Create the same build, go test it. Cry after.

Math is math. It’s very simple chemistry and thermodynamics. No crying needed… I make more power than that now with my build without even having the chiller bolted on.

You can live in whatever dream world you want but I can guarantee you 100% and would bet my life savings on the fact that you did not make 740awhp (corrected because you didn’t actually even have wheels on) without swapping injectors.

AZDinoPwr · Nov 18, 2023

Scubajoe said:
It’s not impossible, I’ve proven it. Prove me wrong. Set up a truck same way, similar tune, and dyno it. No one has ever done it. Until someone else has done it, and doesn’t have similar results, it’s all white noise.

People have done it with more boost, more fuel and made less power….

Did you ever wonder why folks tagged me in this thread to fact check you? Perhaps because I have a bit more experience than you lol. By all means keep shouting… I could go hook up my truck to a hub dyno right now and make it read 2000hp if I wanted to. Just change one variable… rotational inertia of the wheels.

Scubajoe · Nov 18, 2023

AZDinoPwr said:
People have done it with more boost, more fuel and made less power….

Did you ever wonder why folks tagged me in this thread to fact check you? Perhaps because I have a bit more experience than you lol. By all means keep shouting… I could go hook up my truck to a hub dyno right now and make it read 2000hp if I wanted to. Just change one variable… rotational inertia of the wheels.

You don’t need more boost if you have colder denser air, more efficient motor. I can get fact checked all yall want, bottom line, if you haven’t tried it, it’s all white noise.